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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#781

Post by horsawlarway »

trgn wrote: post #713
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would cybertruck be cancelled?

it's one of their models i would like for them to succeed the most. americans love trucks (especially where i live), and the impact of electric truck replacing ice ones on the gestalt of the neighborhood is significant, no noise, no fumes. people tend to drive their electric cars/trucks more gently too. my neighbor bought one, and it's night and day. and oddly enough, while i kneejerk hated it at first, the design ha…

While I also don't mind manufacturers trying a new look, and I like the vague "halo warthog" look of the thing, the Cybertruck seems to have ended up a very bad spot.

It's just not a good truck.

It's also suffered from being insanely overhyped, and then underdelivering on basically every front.

---

Part of my problem with modern Tesla is that they seem to have really jumped the shark on delivering products that are functional. Across the board - from autonomous driving, solar roofs, power walls, Cybertruck, Semi, etc... Even the mass manufactured lines like the Y get staggeringly bad reliability ratings and reviews.

Good form is great! Good form at the expense of good function is not.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#782

Post by usaphp »

sgjohnson wrote: post #565
Traster wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're totally wrong on this. Tesla didn't waste the first mover advantage. They benefitted from it whilst it existed, but Electric vehicles turned into a commodity, which was entirely expected and there's no moat. You've explained yourself why it would be untenable for Musk to pursue becoming the biggest car manufacturer in the world - if he succeeded in that goal... he would have succeded in shrinking the v…

> It's pure logic that Tesla has to pursue bets that would justify billion dollar valuations and being a car company isn't that. But it's make-believe. Tesla is a car manufacturer. They haven't shipped anything else other than cars. And they even suck at making cars these days. Tesla Semi? All but dead. The new roadster? Also dead. Full Self Driving? Doesn't exist. Robotaxis? Even if they got them to work, at this po…

> And they even suck at making cars these days

Aren’t model Y and model 3 considered the best cars in their class by most motor journalists?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#783

Post by WarmWash »

jordanb wrote: post #765
WarmWash wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But just to keep the story straight Tesla received ~$3 billion in subsidies. When Elon exercised his Tesla options in 2021, he paid $11 billion in taxes on it. By all accounts those subsidies were an incredibly good use of taxpayer money, and similar subsidies should keep being handed out, even if the byproduct is another big troll on twitter.

Dunno where that $3 billion comes from; tesla made 11 billion in regulatory credits alone: https://insideevs.com/news/767939/tesla-regulatory-credit-11...

Perhaps you are confused, the regulatory credits were sold by Tesla to other car makers so they could meet their emissions requirements. That $11 billion came from other automakers, not taxpayers.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#784

Post by terminalbraid »

WarmWash wrote: post #751
jacquesm wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla benefited from tax payer subsidies.

Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But just to keep the story straight Tesla received ~$3 billion in subsidies. When Elon exercised his Tesla options in 2021, he paid $11 billion in taxes on it. By all accounts those subsidies were an incredibly good use of taxpayer money, and similar subsidies should keep being handed out, even if the byproduct is another big troll on twitter.

> Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer

But then you go to defend them as if it were something you're obligated to do. I think you demonstrably do not hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#785

Post by jordanb »

WarmWash wrote: post #783
jordanb wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno where that $3 billion comes from; tesla made 11 billion in regulatory credits alone: https://insideevs.com/news/767939/tesla-regulatory-credit-11...

Perhaps you are confused, the regulatory credits were sold by Tesla to other car makers so they could meet their emissions requirements. That $11 billion came from other automakers, not taxpayers.

So you're saying Tesla made $3 billion directly from taxpayers and another $11 billion in cash transfers from their competitors required by the government?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#786

Post by Deklomalo »

sib wrote: post #777
Deklomalo wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is already valued 9x higher than uber. Uber makes money on every ride. Teslas Robotaxi has to be cheaper than a taxi with a human and i don't think they will be able to have a lot higher revenue per ride than uber. Not 9x And if Tesla starts to deliver a robotaxi, all of this revenue has to be shared between taxis, uber, Tesla, Waimo, Zoox, Rimac, Cruise, Baidu, WeRide, ... So how huge is the market for Tesla t…

>> i don't think they will be able to have a lot higher revenue per ride than uber. Not 9x Why would Tesla need to have higher revenue per ride than Uber? The value of a company is driven (ultimately) by its profit, not its revenue. And Tesla doesn't have to give the majority of the fare to the driver.

[dead]

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#787

Post by ghtbircshotbe »

bhouston wrote: post #43

Tesla is a meme stock in a similar manner to GME. You cannot bet against them even if they have incredibly unsure future prospectives because there are too many believers who will buy any dips.

Game stop used its irrationally high stock price to raise money. Tesla instead has been giving away stock to make Musk richer.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#788

Post by WarmWash »

terminalbraid wrote: post #784
WarmWash wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But just to keep the story straight Tesla received ~$3 billion in subsidies. When Elon exercised his Tesla options in 2021, he paid $11 billion in taxes on it. By all accounts those subsidies were an incredibly good use of taxpayer money, and similar subsidies should keep being handed out, even if the byproduct is another big troll on twitter.

> Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But then you go to defend them as if it were something you're obligated to do. I think you demonstrably do not hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer.

No I hate disinformation that makes people on my side look uninformed and stupid.

On a deeper level, I hate bandwagons because they are invariably full of idiotic parrots.

Elon has done a enough demonstrably stupid and bad shit that we don't need to play deception to drum up resistance. Especially when that deception plays on "government subsides in the green sector have been a colossal waste of money".

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#789

Post by jkrejcha »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #406
kleton wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be possible to build an ornithopter, evidenced by the existence of avians, but it turned out the easiest ways to make flying machines were otherwise.

I like the comparison, but with aviation on a fundamental level we made it simpler (removing actuation), not added more (senses we dont need)

Others in this subthread discussed the comparison of the complexity of different ways of achieving flight itself, but I think there is an interesting discussion in that... well... we do add senses we don't technically need to achieve stable flight (but are very useful for safe flight and have reduced the incidence of aviation incidents and accidents dramatically).

Whether it be altimeters based on radio[1] or air pressure[2], avoidance and surveillance systems that use radio waves to avoid collisions with other aircraft[3][4], airborne weather radars[5], sensors that measure angle of attack (AoA), GNSS location, attitude, etc, many aircraft (even unpowered gliders!) have some combination of special sensing systems that aren't strictly necessary to take off, fly to a destination, and land, even if some are required for what many would consider safe flight in some scenarios.

Many of these systems have redundancies built in in some form or another and many of these systems are even built into unmanned aerial systems (UASes) big and small.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_altimeter

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_altimeter

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy...

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Dependent_Surveillan...

[5]: https://skybrary.aero/articles/weather-radar

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#790

Post by smotched »

not_ai wrote: post #725
gwbas1c wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And to add insult to injury, even GM Super Cruise is widely renowned as better and safer than Tesla’s current “FSD”. My Huyndai's Autopilot equivalent (I don't even know what they call it) is better than the enhanced Autopilot in the Model 3 that I traded in. It actually changes lanes when I put on the blinker, instead of only changing lanes 70% of the time, and the other time just sitting with the blinker on and a…

I did not know this and explains why I see so many teslas with their blinkers on and not maneuvering despite having ample room and time. Ultimately this behavior makes them unsafe for their occupants as well as others around them. Cars only work because we can predict driver behavior, if they break that prediction that’s when bad things are likely to happen… Lately I’ve started to ignore Tesla blinker.

Autopilot doesnt turn on the turn signal or change lanes, what you are dealing with is humans.
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