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Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#781

Post by ajross »

jbullock35 wrote: post #661
ajross wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I don't know if this is your intent or not, but by engaging in this kind of framing you're essentially saying that all violence[1] is excusable by default. We're supposed to live in a society where the opposite is true, I thought. > [1] All violence by your allied authority figures, that is. We both know you wouldn't grant the same grace and charity to the intentions of the protestors. This is a disgraceful ad homi…

> This is a disgraceful ad hominem attack.

An ad hominem argument is an argument constructed around characteristics of a person outside the bounds of what is being discussed. Inferring someone's opinion[1] about the subject under discussion from their text, and explicitly marking so in my text when doing so, is just "debate". Am I wrong? Say I'm wrong and cite why.

Don't call me "disgraceful". Why? Because THAT is an ad hominem attack. In fact the clear offense being taken makes it pretty clear to me that my point landed closer than maybe you're prepared to admit.

[1] You cleverly skipped the point where I even admitted I might be wrong!

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#782

Post by UncleMeat »

wozer wrote: post #498
porknubbins wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I know, including some on the right disagree with these tactics which seem designed more to intimidate and silence opposition. Of course you’re free to work with whomever you choose but it seems like a pretty empty virtue signal to avoid all companies in a huge, diverse country

A country that elected Trump twice in spite of his obvious character flaws. Also using the term "virtue signal" marks you as an idiot.

The term really is being abused.

"Oh, you are donating your time and money to charitable programs to the poor? What virtue signaling." It has just become a cliche to say that doing anything based on your values whatsoever is bad.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#783

Post by lobsterthief »

jrs235 wrote: post #373
piva00 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have at least two videos to watch and see if it was a situation requiring an execution. No need to read press releases, your own eyes and ears.

The problem is some are using only their ears to listen to what they are told happened by those responsible for and overseeing the officers involved and refusing you use their eyes and watch the videos. It seems some just want to believe (a lie) and not dig into know the truth.

Yes, some people are still deep in the denial phase of the grief cycle [of losing our country]. I have many friends like that.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#784

Post by UncleMeat »

Whatarethese wrote: post #650

In a few short years some of these ICE workers will be brought up on charges and sentences for their crimes. Just because no one has the gaul to arrest them today doesn't mean they won't in the future. No statute of limitations here.

I would like to believe this, but I think we need new leadership in dem leadership to make this happen.

Trump staged a coup to invalidate an election and install himself as president. Dem leadership thought that slow rolling his prosecution was the right idea. I believe that there is serious risk that the dems just say "well, let's try to put all that behind us" if they win in 2026 and 2028.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#785

Post by tomhow »

foldr wrote: post #778
tomhow wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single instances and hypotheticals don't tell us much. That particular topic spent only four hours on the front page, and it was times that are peak for the U.K. and off-peak for the U.S. Plenty of stories related to U.S. politics spend at least that amount of time on the front page. People often remember the stories that are flagged that they strongly felt should have been given front page time, but forget about the…

I doubt you can point me to a recent story about US politics that spent four hours on the front page and had a similarly inflammatory headline. It would be as if this discussion were occurring under the headline "ICE thugs murder second US citizen" and linked to the website of a left-wing political organisation with an anonymous byline. Unless peak US times are very late in the day, I'm pretty sure I do look at HN qu…

The story you're talking about was on the front page mostly between about 1pm and 3pm U.K. time, then hovered around the bottom of the front page and dropped off as most of the U.S. came online. And you're talking about one article but asserting a trend or pattern.

Here are recent stories about U.S. politics with inflammatory titles that spent multiple hours (over 22, in one case) on the front page.

The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46633378 - Jan 2026 (858 comments - 2 hours)

Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46355548 - Dec 2025 (471 comments - 22 hours)

A Developer Accidentally Found CSAM in AI Data. Google Banned Him for It - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46233067 - Dec 2025 (93 comments - 2 hours)

You can't refuse to be scanned by ICE's facial recognition app, DHS document say - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45780228 - Nov 2025 (509 comments - 7 hours)

Police Said They Surveilled Woman Who Had an Abortion for Her 'Safety.' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45505103 - Oct 2025 (163 comments - 3 hours)

We could debate what counts as "recent" or "inflammatory," but I don't think that would be productive.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#786

Post by B1FIDO »

lobsterthief wrote: post #783
jrs235 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is some are using only their ears to listen to what they are told happened by those responsible for and overseeing the officers involved and refusing you use their eyes and watch the videos. It seems some just want to believe (a lie) and not dig into know the truth.

Yes, some people are still deep in the denial phase of the grief cycle [of losing our country]. I have many friends like that.

A funny thing about the "stages of grief" is that they are a total myth and the originator of the hypothesis never intended them to be abused this way.

Elisabeth Kübler-Ross did her research solely on people who were dying: people with terminal illnesses, and she studied how they coped with facing their own mortality. Not how other people did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_K%C3%BCbler-Ross

And of course, even for a dying person, this may be total bunk. It is not like some programmed flowchart that people go through five stages of emotional stuff. This is just, like, a framework for further therapy.

I'm actually studying this stuff right now. In the 1980s and 1990s, "The Five Stages of Grief" were basically a household phrase, and everybody talked about them like they were real and true and invariable. But everyone doing the talking had never actually studied the research or even knew who proposed it. They were just parroting headlines.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#787

Post by matsemann »

tim333 wrote: post #748
matsemann wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate that they "both sides" this. "DHS says he approached with a handgun, NYT says the video shows a phone" makes it seem like just an unlucky misunderstanding. But the DHS quote clearly is a straight up lie based on video evidence, and this doesn't convey how it was a straight up execution and that all the escalation was done by the officers.

From my reading of the evidence so far it seems there was a misunderstanding. Looks like one of the ICE guys said he has a gun, took the gun but the others didn't realise the gun had been taken.

Nah, "he has a gun" doesn't mean he poses a threat, especially not when maced, with 4 guys on top and hands placed on the ground. And it definitely doesn't explain why they kept firing at him even when laying dead on the ground.

The thugs created the situation, escalated the situation, and then showed their true colors. Nothing in this can be explained away by a mere misunderstanding.

And I recommend watching the videos, not just "reading the evidence". The statements made are blatant lies and you should put no stock in them.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#788

Post by lobsterthief »

B1FIDO wrote: post #729
wqaatwt wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amongst other stuff you just said.. not everything a law enforcement officer says is a lawful order by definition. If they are running around harassing, assaulting and arresting people with a due cause that’s still illegal.

[flagged]

Damn this is a pretty crazy comment. Get help dude.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#789

Post by foldr »

tomhow wrote: post #785
foldr wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt you can point me to a recent story about US politics that spent four hours on the front page and had a similarly inflammatory headline. It would be as if this discussion were occurring under the headline "ICE thugs murder second US citizen" and linked to the website of a left-wing political organisation with an anonymous byline. Unless peak US times are very late in the day, I'm pretty sure I do look at HN qu…

The story you're talking about was on the front page mostly between about 1pm and 3pm U.K. time, then hovered around the bottom of the front page and dropped off as most of the U.S. came online. And you're talking about one article but asserting a trend or pattern. Here are recent stories about U.S. politics with inflammatory titles that spent multiple hours (over 22, in one case) on the front page. The Palantir app…

You're really comparing these to the following headline?

> The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management

All of your examples focus on specific events and factual claims, not sweeping doom and gloom claims about the state of the US. I'll leave the reader to draw their own conclusions.

By the way, we're both making claims here based on what we've seen of HN, not some kind of objective scientific analysis. I asserted a trend and gave an example of the trend that I was talking about. It's silly to complain about that when you are doing the exact same thing.

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