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Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

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Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#781

Post by dlubarov »

cess11 wrote: post #774
dlubarov wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ended the occupations meaning what, never enter Lebanon? What do you think Israel should have done about Hezbollah’s terrorism, just tolerate it and never let Israelis return to their homes in the north? Apart from that it seems like you’re just switching topics to a variety of other accusations. We were talking about a particular operation which you claimed was “untargeted”, yet you haven’t suggested any better alte…

Using force to halt or slow a genocide is not terrorism. And yes, Israel ought to retreat from lebanese as well as syrian and palestinian territory, stop it's cross-border attacks, allow displaced people to return to their homes and pay reparations. The alternative is exactly that, to stop doing apartheid and occupation and allow justice to prevail.

There’s no question that Hezbollah’s bombardment was terrorism. It would be absurd to claim that they were targeting military assets when they routinely use unguided rockets which aren’t capable of doing so. Israel had every right to enter Lebanon in response.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#783

Post by bigyabai »

tptacek wrote: post #772
bigyabai wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think quite a lot of things other people disagree with in this thread.

Though: this world's essentially an absurd place to be living in, it doesn't call for bubble withdrawal. I've been told it's a fact of life: men have to kill one another. Well, I say there are still things worth fighting for!

I hope that you discover a world worth that is worth sharing with your fellow man, in your lifetime.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#784

Post by bigyabai »

UltraSane wrote: post #777
newspaper1 wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jews use "goy" as a slur against non-Jews. As a so called "goy", I don't find "goybucks" offensive and in fact appreciate the attempt to reclaim the word.

Would you be ok with "abeedbucks"?

If it's self-depricating, sure. I'd love to see how my two cents in goybucks measure up in the eyes of a Muslim man.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#785

Post by sporkxrocket »

dlubarov wrote: post #781
cess11 wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using force to halt or slow a genocide is not terrorism. And yes, Israel ought to retreat from lebanese as well as syrian and palestinian territory, stop it's cross-border attacks, allow displaced people to return to their homes and pay reparations. The alternative is exactly that, to stop doing apartheid and occupation and allow justice to prevail.

There’s no question that Hezbollah’s bombardment was terrorism. It would be absurd to claim that they were targeting military assets when they routinely use unguided rockets which aren’t capable of doing so. Israel had every right to enter Lebanon in response.

[flagged]

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#786

Post by bigyabai »

UltraSane wrote: post #681
sporkxrocket wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any collateral damage here is orders of magnitude less than what Israel has done. There’s no debating that.

It isn't collateral damage. Hezbollah's goal is to kill Israeli civilians.

Unfortunately, the IDF also doctrinally enshrines killing Israelis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

Accountability on both sides is needed, for the violence to end.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#787

Post by dlubarov »

sporkxrocket wrote: post #785
dlubarov wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no question that Hezbollah’s bombardment was terrorism. It would be absurd to claim that they were targeting military assets when they routinely use unguided rockets which aren’t capable of doing so. Israel had every right to enter Lebanon in response.

[flagged]

Suppose we believe all captions in your links, so for example we'll assume that guy in shorts and flip flops was some sort of “spy balloon manager.”

It wouldn’t matter, because once you perform terrorist attacks, you’re still a terrorist even if you also attack valid targets sometimes. Same as Hamas, which is still a terrorist org despite attacking some IDF bases.

Even Amnesty has acknowledged Hezbollah’s routine use of unguided rockets, which can’t possibly target military assets but are just lobbed in the general direction of population centers. That makes them terrorists, regardless of what else they do.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/israel-hezbol...

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#789

Post by sporkxrocket »

dlubarov wrote: post #787
sporkxrocket wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Suppose we believe all captions in your links, so for example we'll assume that guy in shorts and flip flops was some sort of “spy balloon manager.” It wouldn’t matter, because once you perform terrorist attacks, you’re still a terrorist even if you also attack valid targets sometimes. Same as Hamas, which is still a terrorist org despite attacking some IDF bases. Even Amnesty has acknowledged Hezbollah’s routine use…

Resistance to occupation and attack isn't "terrorism", that word has no meaning anymore.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#790

Post by rat87 »

jackling wrote: post #443
rat87 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> did, in effect, target civilians. That's ridiculous > If you attack a military target that is surrounded by civilians, and that attack injures or kills those civilians, then those civilians were also targeted. They are not targeted. You could say that depending on number of innocent casualties or the likely number the attacked could be reckless and/or disproportionate in attacking in a way that was likely to cause…

I agree with your last point, but tbh, the exact idea of "targeted" is splitting hairs IMO. I'm not arguing that civilians were the primary target, but not caring that they were around, and being fine with their death as long as the combatant was dead, in my view makes it seem that Israel's enemies are not the combatants of Hezbollah, but generally just the Lebanese people. If someone droped a nuke on a city to kill…

It's not splitting hairs it gets to the point when people falsely accuse them of every single thing in the book. Weapons have always been imprecise but things that don't have any benefit to the war effort and target innocent civilian deaths are war crimes. You may ask how much the difference matters morally(it still does matter a lot intent it rule based vs consequences based morality systems I'd argue for somewhere in between) but yes targeting matters when it comes to usually false claims of crimes

They do care about not killing civilians the question is how much? And is that enough? There will almost never be any operation near cities without civilian casualties.

This particular operation was an extremely Targeted operation that included tricking Hezbollah into selling pagers meant for Hezbollah internal military use and only deploying small explosions minimizing any unnecessary casualties.

It's not a very good piece of rhetoric asking about nukes because Israel actually has nukes. They didn't use them.

They have carried out other heavier strikes on Lebanon that had worse ratios but were justified by military targets such as Hezbollah leader Nasrallah.

Your suggestion also seems to totally not understand how Israelis view Lebanon. Until recently and still Lebanon does not control violence within it's borders. Hezbollah (a militia/terrorist group that takes orders from Iran) was more powerful then the Lebanese army and decided what happened on the ground. Iran which had a countdown clock counting down to the destruction of Israel. Of course they were supposed to be disarmed after the Lebanese but unsurprisingly the UN resolution didn't have any effect so when they attacked and threatened to invade Israel did what they could to take them out. Israel would love to have peace with Lebanon but that's not likely if Iran and Hezbollah have anything to do with it.

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