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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

theverge.com

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#781

Post by slow_typist »

array_key_first wrote: post #504
clickety_clack wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So “smart rules” only means “more rules”? Smart rule making includes reducing the regulatory burden when it overreaches. The weight of regulation around tech in the EU is creating an environment such that the only companies that can operate in a space are the ones who can afford massive compliance overhead. That leaves you with the very same big tech firms that people are writing these rules to protect themselves fro…

Right, but it's obviously not overreaching, because user's data is taken: 1. Without their consent, 2. Without their knowledge and, 3. Cannot be taken back or denied in a simple way. There is a problem space here, in which there is zero solution. There is absolutely nothing, _NOTHING_, consumers can do if they want to protect their privacy. And before I hear 'well just don't use...' no - uh uh, that doesn't count. Th…

The answer is to force them to adhere to rules. Not to loosen the rules.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#782

Post by pfdietz »

jack_tripper wrote: post #707
wqaatwt wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they will be then we adjust the law. Bizarrely horrible approach. A lot of damage would already be done, most importantly changing the status quo is inherently much harder than doing nothing. So going back won’t necessarily be straightforward. Claiming that “slippery slope” is always a fallacy is a gross misconception and misinterpretation. It varies case by case, very often it can be a perfectly rational argument.…

>Some lines need to be drawn that can never be crossed regardless of any good and well reasoned intentions. Too late. We already let the government cross the lines during Covid with freedom of movement and freedom of speech restrictions, and they got away with it because it was "for your protection". Now a lot of EU countries are crossing them even more also "for your protection" due to "Russian misinformation" and "…

The libertarian approach to COVID would be that infecting someone is assault and you are justified in shooting someone who is trying to do that.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#783

Post by Myrmornis »

thfuran wrote: post #565
Myrmornis wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't know whether they are or are not doing things that require consent under the law. That's because, if you haven't noticed, the people concerned are computer programmers, UI designers, and PMs. Notably missing from that list is "lawyers who can be bothered to research the question". People put the banners up because they see other people doing it and it seems safest. That all of this would be so should hav…

Any company that can hire teams of software developers can afford to hire a lawyer to tell them whether they need to irritate all their customers. And frankly, they'd be dumb not to hire a lawyer if they think they need some legal cover to determine whether that cover is sufficient.

Good god. I certainly wasn't suggesting this situation would be improved by software teams hiring lawyers to advise on their software! You appear to have completely lost perspective.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#784

Post by dgb23 »

lenkite wrote: post #561
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

That cookie banner needs to be standardized and offered by the browser. It should be like a certificate popup. Why is every website forced into doing a shoddy job ?

We had a do-not-track header that has been deprecated. Simply enforcing the header legally and having it on by default would suffice and it would be much easier to test, because it's not bespoke from the client side of things.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#785

Post by hnbad »

This sounds interesting and all but I'd like a more technically informed source than The Verge to judge whether the headline is accurate:

> One change that’s likely to please almost everyone is a reduction in Europe’s ubiquitous cookie banners and pop-ups. Under the new proposal, some “non-risk” cookies won’t trigger pop-ups at all, and users would be able to control others from central browser controls that apply to websites broadly.

That's nonsensical. The GDPR doesn't require "cookie banners and pop-ups". Obtaining consent for things you can't do without consent does - if you insist on handling it that way. And "'non-risk' cookies", i.e. technical cookies required to fulfil the functionality requested by the user (e.g. maintain a login session) definitionally don't require consent and thus no "pop-up" or "banner". So what is the actual change here?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#786

Post by dgb23 »

blueblisters wrote: post #767
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

The problem is paternalism and assuming the user is too dumb to take control their privacy preferences. The compliance of the cookie banner regulation has measurable negative externalities - one estimate suggests a EUR 14B/year productivity hit in the EU Most modern browsers allow you to disable all cookies if you like. You can always use incognito mode if you want to be selective about it. In an ideal world, the EU…

GDPR is not a cookie regulation it is a tracking regulation.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#787

Post by Aaargh20318 »

DavideNL wrote: post #606
lenkite wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cookie banner needs to be standardized and offered by the browser. It should be like a certificate popup. Why is every website forced into doing a shoddy job ?

Aren’t tracking cookies mostly irrelevant nowadays, because every browser can be uniquely fingerprinted anyway?

The law doesn't even mention cookies. This is a common misunderstanding and causes a lot of annoyance as I've seen websites ask for permission to store cookies even when they don't need explicit permission.

The law only concerns itself with tracking. If you don't use a mechanism to uniquely identify people over multiple visits and/or websites, you're fine. You can store simple preferences in a cookie without asking. No need to bother your users with a cookie wall for that.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#788

Post by veeti »

bl0rg wrote: post #709
VadimPR wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden and Netherlands it is quite easy and straightforward to register a business, speaking from personal experience. Tax filing is quite straightforward as well, especially for personal income tax.

Starting a company in Sweden requires (uploaded PDF from Bolagsverket to ChatGPT who summarized): 1. Prepare the foundation deed and the articles of association. 2. Identify the beneficial owner(s). 3. Pay the share capital and obtain the bank certificate or auditor’s statement. 4. Submit the registration application for the limited company to the Swedish Companies Registration Office (Bolagsverket) and wait for appr…

Are you implying that there is a country somewhere you don't have to "keep bookkeeping and prepare annual accounts"? Sounds like bog standard things.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#789

Post by Aaargh20318 »

lenkite wrote: post #561
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

That cookie banner needs to be standardized and offered by the browser. It should be like a certificate popup. Why is every website forced into doing a shoddy job ?

> That cookie banner needs to be standardized and offered by the browser.

That's actually part of these changes. It's mentioned in the linked article about halfway down.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#790

Post by thomastraum »

I love how you can think about any of these ideas in a really basic way like a 5 year old and you'll know intuitively that it'll all fail, particularly if you invert it:

for example:

- bureaucracy creates less bureaucracy

- price controls create more supply

- adding more rules creates more freedom

- government is good at understanding technology

- the more people you have the better your decisions will be

- the further someone is from a problem, the better they can solve it

etc

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