Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

781–790 of 894 posts

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#781

Post by kennywinker »

jameshilliard wrote: post #767
kennywinker wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the actual moral choice isn’t attacking blindly or mass surveillance of an occupied nation - it’s peace? Regardless, the death toll in gaza (somewhere between 45,000 and 600,000) suggests that this mass surveillance isn’t being used effectively to reduce the death toll. It also doesn’t take mass surveillance to know that bombing hospitals and schools is going to kill innocent people.

> Regardless, the death toll in gaza (somewhere between 45,000 and 600,000) suggests that this mass surveillance isn’t being used effectively to reduce the death toll. Keep in mind deaths published by the Gaza(Hamas) ministry of health do not differentiate civilian vs combatant deaths at all.

That’s true, but of the 65,063 deaths reported by the GHM, at least 18,500 of them are children, 217 journalists, 120 academics, and 224 humanitarian aid workers.

And that 65k number does not include indirect deaths - i.e. deaths by starvation, or death from something that could have been easily survived if there were still hospitals instead of rubble. Which is where the 680,000 number comes from - the largest estimate of how many may have been killed directly and indirectly by this genocidal war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#782

Post by ModernMech »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #334
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will Microsoft rehire the employees who were fired for protesting? No? Hmm, then you should not let Microsoft whitewash its record by taking credit for the very cause those workers were punished for defending

> Will Microsoft rehire the employees who were fired for protesting? One can be correct in theory and wrong in practice at the same time.

Yes, Microsoft was right in theory for firing the protestors, but wrong in practice because Microsoft should have listened to their employees before it got to the point they felt they had to mount a protest to get executives' attentions.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#783

Post by pcthrowaway »

amscanne wrote: post #771
anramon wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/12/israeli-ex-com... Or maybe that man is a hamas spy, right?

It’s literally the same numbers as the posted ones, and exactly aligned with what I’m saying. > The current official toll is 64,718 Palestinians killed in Gaza and 163,859 injured, since the start of the war on 7 October 2023 You may have been misled by the headline “X killed or injured”.. those are two different things, and we’re talking about the number killed. I don’t know if those numbers are accurate (the articl…

Nice cherry-picking

> Halevi stepped down as chief of staff in March after leading the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) for the first 17 months of the war, which is now approaching its second anniversary.

> The retired general told a community meeting in southern Israel earlier this week that more than 10% of Gaza’s 2.2 million population had been killed or injured – “more than 200,000 people”.

The point is that we know 64,000 is almost certainly an undercount. Notably it hasn't changed much in the last year since the Hamas ministry of health collapsed.

The commenter above is correct in saying the bound of deaths is very likely between 45,000 and 600,000. We have good reason to suspect it was over 100,000 late last year. We won't know the actual number until an independent assessment can occur.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#784

Post by kennywinker »

amscanne wrote: post #769
kennywinker wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately not a typo: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/press-briefing-francesca... “65,000 is the number of Palestinians are certain killed, including over, of which 75% are women and children. In fact, we shall start the thinking of 680,000, because this is the number that some scholars and scientists claim being the real death toll in Gaza. And it would be hard to be able to prove or disprove this number, es…

I don’t think her statements aren’t even factual: the current estimates aren’t the confirmed identities, they include estimates for missing and presumed dead. You don’t think the GHM would publish larger estimates if 1/3 of every living person in Gaza was missing or dead? It’s hard to have an objective conversation when numbers are just made up.

I am not asserting a specific number. There have been between 65,000 and 680,000 gazans murdered by the idf directly and indirectly. I think it’s unlikely the number is as high as 680k, but there is absolute chaos on the ground, doctors and hospitals and records destroyed. We won’t know until the slaughter stops what number is real.

If you want to let the lack of a specific number hold you up while the killing continues, that’s up to you.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#785

Post by kennywinker »

amscanne wrote: post #771
anramon wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/12/israeli-ex-com... Or maybe that man is a hamas spy, right?

It’s literally the same numbers as the posted ones, and exactly aligned with what I’m saying. > The current official toll is 64,718 Palestinians killed in Gaza and 163,859 injured, since the start of the war on 7 October 2023 You may have been misled by the headline “X killed or injured”.. those are two different things, and we’re talking about the number killed. I don’t know if those numbers are accurate (the articl…

GP here. The GMH number doesn’t include indirect deaths, i.e. all the deaths that happen because of war that aren’t bullets and bombs. Disease, famine, not getting cancer screenings or antibiotics because all the hospitals have been blown up… that stuff.

So while 680k (the current highest estimate) is probably higher than reality, god i hope it is, it’s also true that reality is probably much higher than the current GMH numbers.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#786

Post by skinkestek »

komali2 wrote: post #755
skinkestek wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Again, it's time to open your eyes, you are on the wrong side of history. The world isn't against you, it's against what Israel is doing to Palestine. You don't have to dig your heels in.

The emperor has no clothes even if he, the entire royal court and the newspapers report it.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#787

Post by skinkestek »

RajT88 wrote: post #161
skinkestek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Other commenters are right, but I'll point out another fallacy you're pushing here. The current situation is like somebody commits a murder. Then the community rounds up a posse and goes out to kill the murderer. Then kill the murder's family, their neighbors, the residents of the next neighborhood over, raze the neighborhoods and then take all the land for themselves. Justice means penalizing the guilty parties, not…

You mean like we did with Germany?

Obviously if the nazis and hamas had come out and surrendered we wouldn't have had to.

But sometimes one has to take out evil. Be it nazis in Berlin or Hamas in Gaza.

And it also serves as a lesson. A lesson certain countries might soon have to learn the hard way:

don't vote for evil, and if you did, don't be the ones who line the streets to cheer for them like Germans and Gazans did.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#788

Post by swores »

jlawson wrote: post #761
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Attacking/bombing/etc without large scale surveillance would largely mean increased collateral damage. That would only be true if your goal was not to completely obliterate the population you are attacking and bombing, as Israel has demonstrated.

Since the Oct 7 attacks the Palestinian population has not shrunk. War deaths have roughly equalled births. Are you claiming that the IDF is trying their hardest to kill all the Palestinians they can, and that this is the best they can do? Really?

You're spreading misinformation (quite likely unintentionally). No data has been released supporting the claim that the population has stayed the same, what was wrongly spread was a US intelligence assessment of expected population which was made before the October 7th attack predicting future population growth, and used by many people as if it had remained accurate despite all the killing,

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#789

Post by skinkestek »

LightBug1 wrote: post #646
dotancohen wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of which didn't happen Even the BBC, a generally anti-Israel organization, has reported on it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

That's a Dec-23 article and doesn't take account of later independent investigations. Regardless. I accept it's reasonable that sexualised violence took place. I accept the what happened on 7th Oct was a horrible terrorist act. But, and apologies if this hurts, none of that, absolutely none of that, justifies what has taken place since. There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that pr…

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#790

Post by skinkestek »

LightBug1 wrote: post #670
dotancohen wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again". Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that. I'm not trying to change your opinion on that. I'm in complete agreement with you on that subject. I am showing you that the accusations of genocide against Israel are beyond ridiculous. They are manufactured to favour the side that 1) provides oil, and 2) is in…

So, despite all the testimonials and video evidence to the contrary, the findings of the world's leading association of genocide scholars, despite Jewish holocaust experts, despite my own conversations with doctors on the ground ... you seek to label accusations of genocide as "beyond ridiculous" from one sentence in a UN report? Not just dishonest. But sickening, frankly.

> the findings of the world's leading association of genocide scholars,

Like IAGS whose findings were widely reported until it turned out the biggest qualifications for its 500 expert members was that they had paid a $30 membership fee? And whose openly accessible member list included "Adolf Hitler"?

The emperor has no clothes and no amount of reports from the royal court of UN will change that:

It is plain for everyone to see and the emperors naked butt is disgusting.

It is also insulting to actual victims of actual genocides.

Post reply on HN