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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#781

Post by sporkxrocket »

andreyvit wrote: post #767
EmiDub wrote: post #651

Can someone give me an explanation for why Mike Cardwell, who lives in the UK, blocks Iranian IPs for “your decision to arm Russia with drones so that they can indiscriminately massacre civilians.” but does not block US or UK IPs for their decision to arm Israel? The answer would seem to me to be racism – he values Ukrainian lives more than Palestinians and considers non-white citizens in non-democratic countries res…

I’m not sure if you’re actually asking or not, but in case you want to hear an answer, it’s because Israel is considered to be defending itself after a horrible attack, not that dissimilar to Ukraine really in some people’s view (me included). This goes back to a worldview where residents of a country share a portion of the blame for their country’s actions. This view is not universal, but has a certain mindshare (ag…

The vast majority of the world including the ICC and the UN does not consider Israel to be defending itself. By your own logic, Israelis are culpable for the genocide and land theft committed by their government.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#783

Post by hashinova »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #643
slg wrote: post #64

>Iranian IPs are blocked here, due to your decision to arm Russia with drones so that they can indiscriminately massacre civilians. The "your decision" in that response is really off-putting. I know the law is what it is with sanctions like this. However, it is a failing of basic human empathy to blame other common citizens of a country for the actions of their government while we almost certainly do not endorse all…

This, 1000%. I think there's a certain kind of thinking that low-IQ people fall into, which is blaming civilians for the actions of their government, often with the coping "they should just overthrow their government" (because it's that easy!) Sadly, in our world where everyone has a voice, you're going to get a lot of this. There's no avoiding the stupids.

> (because it's that easy!)

I don't think anyone believes it is easy, but are sanctions not at least an incentive to try?

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#784

Post by somenameforme »

simianparrot wrote: post #717
somenameforme wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't require any lengthy history. We're still killing Iranians regularly and pretty much arbitrarily, as well as backing Israel doing the same in a borderline psychotic fashion. And you're here fear mongering about them saying 'Death to America' which is pretty much the equivalent of waving a stick at somebody after they just burnt down your house with your family in it.

And Iran has waged proxy wars on Americans, civilians and military personnel alike, for four decades. The countries are at war. It's just not kinetic, ie. with troops on the battlefield. That is reality. I know it sucks, but you can't expect the US to just let the threat be. It's not like US is alone in wanting to suppress Iran's threat anyway; you can blame most European countries for aiding in that suppression. I w…

Iran has not been attacking US civilians. This is nonsense. The best you're going to come up with there is the Iran hostage crisis. And what was that? That was when Iranian students stormed and occupied the US embassy, almost 50 years ago, demanding that the US extradite Mohammed Reza Pahlavi - the tyrant that the US had installed in Iran after overthrowing their government, who was then granted asylum after he was overthrown and fled to the US following events like the Jaleh Square massacre. [1]

In the end 0 civilians were harmed and it led to the Algiers Accords [1] under which its chief provision is that the US would not intervene politically or militarily in Iranian internal affairs. Besides the US obviously endlessly violating that, we also violated another section of the treaty (related to the settlement of litigation) almost immediately after it was signed.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(1978)

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_Accords_(1981)

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#785

Post by int_19h »

tgma wrote: post #766
YC984983427 wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proroguing in parliaments is nothing new or anti-democratic. Canada had its parliament prorogued for the first 4 months of this year yet I didn't see calls for violent US-backed regime change and political suppression like there was under the American puppet Shah. Same with deposing a monarch (getting rid of monarchy is "anti-democratic" now?). More information on the "Iranian golden age of prosperity" you mentioned:…

> Proroguing in parliaments is nothing new or anti-democratic. He prorogued the parliament and was calling for a referendum to overthrow the monarchy against the Constitution. He was terminated by the monarch per Constitution, but he would not leave the post which resulted in uprising from both sides. > During that time two monarchs — Reza Shah Pahlavi and his son Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi — employed secret police,…

Are you seriously claiming that SAVAK wasn't a thing, or that it didn't employ torture? Or are you saying that the "golden era" justified such measures?

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#786

Post by int_19h »

baggachipz wrote: post #735
marcosdumay wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very rare that international relations get poisoned for generations without some ongoing work from both involved parties. Populations tend to forget things on the timeline of a decade or so. The US can rebuild most of what they destroyed. It's gone now, and some of it they were already on the process of losing and can't get back. But no country is beyond reconstruction.

The Cold War would like to have a word with you. Yes, we gave them a McDonald's in the 90's, but things have only gotten worse over time.

And yet look at Vietnam-US relations.

As someone who grew up in Russia in the 90s, that McDonald's actually did wonders! The problem is that y'all figured that if you help people who say that they are "democrats" maintain control over the country, it'll all work out, somehow. What actually happened is that many of those people were grifters, some others idealistic incompetents who thought they had all the answers after reading Ayn Rand. On the whole, the people - who were very enthusiastic about the changes in late 80s - by mid-90s felt like they've been robbed, quite rightly so (read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization_in_Russia for some examples), by people now firmly associated with the West and with words such as "liberal". This is the big reason why Western-style liberal democracy very quickly became a marginalized minority political opinion in Russia, and why the likes of Putin could easily take power by promising people that they'll fix the mess.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#787

Post by int_19h »

imchillyb wrote: post #628
kelnos wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries... "You all" is a weird way of putting it. I don't support my government levying sanctions on these countries, but I have zero power to change it. It's funny, as the gist author points out that he doesn't support the actions of the Islamic Republic, and has no power to change i…

Sanctions are not designed to coerce a populace into rebellion, in order to facilitate regime change. Sanctions are designed to prevent an enemy government from profiting from our western economy. Sanctions are designed to bring hostile entities to the negotiation table. Sanctions curtail the worst behaviors of enemy nations because the sanctions deny those enemies money. Money is power. Little money = little power.

For the most part, sanctions are designed to be "something" in the infamous "SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!!!1!" mantra. They rarely achieve any of the goals that you enumerate, disproportionately inconveniencing regular citizens - government actors have the means and the know-how to work around them. But mob justice demands an eye for an eye, which is to say, someone must be made to suffer - and sanctions provide a way to do that, even if the people actually suffering are rarely morally responsible.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#788

Post by int_19h »

dh2022 wrote: post #661
lazide wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying the sanctions haven’t hurt, rather that when the war was at its decisive point (the first few days) they did not exist/were immaterial. Now they’re just doing more damage in an already damaging (and unwinnable) situation.

The biggest sanctions were adopted after the war started (and then the West kept piling up new sanctions every few months). Are you suggesting the West should have put these harsh sanctions before the war? My recollection of Dec 2021 and Jan/Feb 2022 were that the West was trying to avoid inciting the crazy Russian dictator: Biden had two tele conferences with Putin in December, there were three meetings in Jan (OSCE…

The West should have put boots on the ground in Ukraine before Russia invaded. That was the one thing that would have prevented the war. Hell, they should have had EU peacekeepers along the line of contact back in 2015.

The kind of sanctions that we've seen since then seem to be mostly about appearances, with EU trying to pretend that it "really cares" despite this epic failure of foreign policy.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#789

Post by int_19h »

ptero wrote: post #478
Xelbair wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, their effect is diminished. After speaking with Russians living in there, day to day life hasn't been affected that much, after initial shock. Trying to use sanctions against another major power isn't guaranteed to work as they can take the hit and pivot to internal industry(which happened), or trading with other major powers that do not sanction them(China). Or some countries get around sanctions - like bu…

> After speaking with Russians living in there, day to day life hasn't been affected that much Did you speak with folks from Moscow or St Petersburg or from different regions? Life in the top 2 cities is kept as normal as possible at all costs; that is part of the Putin's approach to handling the elites (you can keep living your comfortable lives as long as you stay out of politics). But elsewhere the quality of life…

I have friends and relatives living in various regions in central and south Russia, and most of them don't feel like their quality of life took a big hit. The main frustrations that I hear are from drone attacks and associated inconveniences, not so much anything economic.

Anecdotally I have also heard that many factory towns are booming because the factories are re-opened or expanded to fulfill all those military orders.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#790

Post by int_19h »

tom910 wrote: post #675
FrozenSynapse wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think sanctions on Russia are not working?

As an russians who moved abroad I think sanctions positively affect Puttin so far. Because, he got a lot what he wanted but couldn't get without sanctions: - russian companies replaced majority of international companies. Many of IT companies growed 20-40% year by year - sanctions locked money inside of the country which help to build new everything - sanctions made boost of internal culture and patriotism. Which als…

Sanctions also helped them sell the "all the bad guys are ganging up on us, so we need tough measures" schtick.
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