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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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781–790 of 955 posts

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palestinian are not ethno nationalists, they are a theocracy. And as a secular Israeli I would really not like to live under one.

Hey, I know this a rando internet commenter here, but what do you think is the solution then? To me, adding more money and guns into this conflict sounds like a really bad idea. But I'm not there and I'm just a fool as a result. I'm honestly asking and not just trolling, really. I'd love your perspective.

Ideally? Palestinian accepting the existence of Israel, foregoing their demands for the right to return and East Jerusalem, and then we can peacefully coexist.

Realistically? Maintaining strong border security, erect more walls, prevent Palestinians from crossing into Israel, legally or illegally, control any gate they have with the outside to prevent smuggling of weapons.

Regarding the hostages? Besiege Gaza until they are returned.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#782
post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jews were kicked out of all the Arab nations they lived in, were persecuted in Europe, and you think that they shouldn’t get a sovereign country for themselves? Should the Kurds get one? Tibetans? Catalonias? Scottish?

The Kurds, Tibetans, Catalonia, or Scottish don't need to ethnically cleanse the land to get their own nation. That's the difference. This is not hard to understand. Most people do not object to the concept of a Jewish state, they object to the ethnic cleansing.

So where can a Jewish state be established without removing the local population?

And regarding some history on the establishment of Israel, after the UN partition resolution the Arabs started a civil war, where Arabs fled from Jewish territories, and Jews fled from Arab territories (Bethlehem and Hebron for example). So you could say that 2 ethno states were established.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#783

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

Yes, it's broadly supported. Besides widely publicised polls by universities and corporations outside of Israel you can look at IDI polls here, https://en.idi.org.il/tags-en/1465.

The why takes more explanation. I'd suggest you dig through https://xcancel.com/ireallyhateyou/, this person is an israeli with background in leftist activism that recently went into exile. They collect and translate a lot of material from israeli television and other media, and also translate and explain a lot of historical material, both more mainstream like background information on contemporary israeli politicians and the occasional look at punk and leftist activism in Israel during the nineties and -00s.

It's also a good idea to spend time going through the material collected by Younis Tirawi, https://xcancel.com/ytirawi. It shows what IDF personnel believes to be appropriate behaviour that will positively impress their civilian israeli peers, i.e. what they consider to be the political climate.

Diaspora jews are quite heterogenous and splintered. Many support Israel, and many don't. One 'poll' is the democratic mayor primary in New York, where Zohran Mamdani was quite popular among jewish constituents. Adding to this, many jewish institutions are in some sense captured or founded by zionists, and funded because they are loyal to the zionist cause. This includes many summer camps and similar activities for jewish youth. Since 2023 I expect more diaspora jews to have lost sympathy with the zionist movement than it has gained, but it's not something I have polling numbers to support. On the other hand, basically every recurring large protest against Israel has a jewish contingent.

At the moment we're past immediate resolution, because the entire population in the Gaza strip has been permanently, irrevocably harmed by starvation. It would also take a lot of violence to force the israeli society to back down and stop what it's doing to its neighbours, and then likely generations of enforced stabilisation and education to sow seeds of democracy, neither of which Israel's occidental backers are willing to consider. Then there's the questions of colonies in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which are illegal and must be dissolved, which in turn would require distinct amounts of force both to achieve and then to keep it from turning into a civil war within Israel when the so called settlers are relocated there.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, one should keep in mind that this is mainly a christian project, most adherents to zionism are christians.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that they mention his family wealth, I can only assume that they mean Osama bin Laden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

Yep that is who I meant.

Why do that? If you mean to say something, go ahead and say it.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#785
post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This did not start on Oct 7. Bad faith nonsense. This argumentum ad Oct-7 got tired about a year ago. How long do you plan to keep using it? Two more years? Ten years? Twenty years?

When did you say the hostages were taken?

Israel is taking hostages all the time and has been for decades and decades. Commonly children.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#786
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well.. straight from the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_... ``` At least 189 Palestinians were killed between 30 March and 31 December 2018.[28]: 6 [29][30] An independent United Nations commission said that at least 29 out of the 189 killed were militants.[5] Israeli soldiers fired tear gas and live ammunition.[31] According to Robert Mardini, head of Middle East for the Internation…

you need to improve your vibe quoting. article talks about 13,000 wounded, not 130,000. iirc, been impacted by tear gas is also "wounded". but back to the point. - do you still claim that it was "peaceful march of return" ? - where do you think the "return" part of the march were leading and what would have happened there ? (just in case, in UN report on Oct 7 documented that in most of places civilians followed arme…

Afterwards IDF soldiers bragged in the media about deliberately mutilating peaceful protestors.

Here's a clarifying table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_...

As you can see it does not include "impacted by tear gas", but a thousand palestinians were harmed by having tear gas canisters shot at them. More than six thousand were maimed by gun fire, and as the numbers show, it was deliberate policy to harm rather than kill.

In comparison, as a measure of the supposed militancy from the palestinians, five israelis were injured and none were killed.

Palestinian refugees have a right to return to their land and homes. That's what the march was about.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Norwegian, it is absolutely baffling how someone can seriously utter the words "I am in full support of Israel's actions in Gaza". Is the media coverage that different in USA than in Europe? How is it possible?

As someone from the USA what I see from media coverage is genocide in Gaza. They would have to be truly ignorant and intentionally uninformed to say something like that or be in favor of genocide.

did you ever consider that media coverage is very selective and biased ?

i remember half an year ago, during ceasefire when gaza was swamped in aid and food was rotting on the streets, laura coates at prime time said that "hundreds of gazans die from starvation daily". never happened. not even dozens.

or when at abby phillips show yesterday, somebody tried to say that presenting images of children with genetic diseases as image of children who are dying from starvation is manipulative, abby phillips stopped this person and said that it's not important.

nyt for example quietly updated it's story on this topic https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-862667

you must have seen numerous mentions that 500 trucks of food to gaza is minimum (and actually needed even more), because it's the number of trucks that were entering gaza before war ? but did you see even once mention that 500 is total number of trucks that included construction materials, animal feed, etc.. etc.. and maximum of trucks of food that entered gaza in 1 day before war was 72(82?)

you don't get journalism in mainstream media coverage anymore. you get activism https://www.thefp.com/p/friedman-when-we-started-to-lie

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of this is hard for an external observer to discern. Are the Palestinians really thar bad? Is IDF really bombing indiscriminately? Ultimately a lot of this is down to information external observers don't have, and people's convictions are at risk of aligning with their sympathies. It is definitely true of me. I don't know if Israel really needs to destroy Hamas to be safe, and what is sufficient to do t…

I generally don’t think your understanding of the settler issue is accurate, but I’m also not an expert on those details. In general Jews living in west bank communities they created seems fine, I don’t think it’s acceptable for Palestinians to ban Jews. Arabs and Jews live in peace alongside each other as equals in Israel. I think Israel does police the violence on their own side. That land is secured by Israel as t…

The West Bank settlement is a clear sign of bad faith, because the only credible chance of peaceful coexistence, the Oslo Accords, earmarked the West Bank exclusively for Palestinians, or more strictly, their state. Sure, I would be delighted if either side of the border Jews and Arabs lived peacefully alongside. But that is not what is happening there.

Settlers, aided by army and militias of unknown status (armed settlers? reservists? real army?) expropriate Palestinian land, destroy their property, threaten and shoot locals. The area, which was supposed to be a core of a Palestinian state, is criss-crossed with Jewish-only roads, settlements, farms, military checkpoints or closed military areas. The settlers enjoy rights their Palestinian neighbours don't have. This is not about some kind of "Palestine for Palestinians" chauvinism, this is a systematic eradication of a people in what was supposed to be reserved land.

Israel simply cannot with a straight face claim that it wanted a peaceful coexistence when it was de facto policy from the get go to make the two state solution impossible.

As for aid... it is not that Israel is somehow being forced to feed its enemies. There are plenty of organisations trying to send the aid in, and Israel is actively stopping them. Israel kicked out reputable aid organisations, with decades of experience in delivering aid even surrounded by hostile warlords, replaced them with some no-name military contractors, and now regularly shoots people queuing for the little food there is. More people have now been shot queing for food than have died on 7th Oct.

I don't think many people are confused as to what Hamas is. Some, sure, are, but most see it as an awful terrorist organisation. Criticism of Israel doesn't stem from people thinking Hamas is good, but from Israel acting murderously in bad faith, in ways incompatible with peaceful goals, while demanding unlimited patience and sympathy from the world.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#790
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? No Hamas in power? Seems like that would give pretty good confidence. This reminds me of alternate history stories where Japan refused to surrender. The US demanded unconditional surrender in WW2. What would have happened if the axis refused. What would have made the allies confident that the war was over without German and Japanese unconditi…

So who will be in power? You've got to remember that Hamas was democratically elected back in 2006, and its main rival Fatah isn't exactly pro-Israel either. Given the circumstances, I don't think there could possibly be a democratically elected government in Gaza which is pro-Israel or even neutral-Israel. Your only option is a puppet dictatorship government installed by Israel - but that's not really going to impro…

France no longer has to live with the risk of an invasion by Germany *because* the Allies stopped the cycle of violence by deciding to reconstruct Germany rather than erase her off the map.

That’s the reason why.

As abundantly mentioned already, the Palestinian survivors will remember and have their revenge someday.

…unless the plan is: “there will be no survivors”.

Have you noticed how shocking the above “plan” is? Events seem to closely align with it. A literal final solution. Equally shocking is how little people care about actual genocide, and - consequently - how normalized this is in practice.

The international community lets Israel get away with far too much.

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