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Study mode

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Re: Study mode

#781
post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly should be able to tell you it doesn't know. Until it can though, a trick that I have learned is to try to frame the question in different ways that suggest contradictory answers. For example, I'd ask something like these, in a fresh context for each: - Why does Duckduckgo change it's logo based on what you've searched? - Why doesn't Duckduckgo change it's logo based on what you've searched? - When did Du…

I see these approaches a lot when I look over the shoulders of LLM users, and find it very funny :D you're spending the time, effort, bandwidth and energy for four carefully worded questions to try and get a sense of the likelihood of the LLM's output resembling facts, when just a single, basic query with simple terms in any traditional search engine would give you a much more reliable, more easily verifable/falsifia…

It really depends on the query. I'm not a Google query expert, but I'm above average. I've noticed that phrasing a query in a certain way to get better results just no longer works. Especially in the last year, I have found it returns results that aren't even relevant at all.

The problem is people have learned to fill their articles/blogs with as many word combinations as possible so that it will show up in as many Google searches as possible, even if it's not relevant to the main question. The article has just 1 subheading that is somewhat relevant to the search query, even though the information under that subheading is completely irrelevant.

LLMs have ironically made this even worse because now it's so easy to generate slop and have it be recommended by Google's SEO. I used to be very good at phrasing a search query in the right way, or quoting the right words/phrases, or having it filter by sites. Those techniques no longer work.

So I have turned to ChatGPT for most of the queries I would have typically used Google for. Especially with the introduction of annotations. Now I can verify the source from where it determined the answer. It's a far better experience in most circumstances compared to Google.

I have also found ChatGPT to be much better than other LLMs at understanding nuance. There have been numerous occasions where I have pushed back against ChatGPT's answer and it has responded with something like "You would be correct if your input/criteria is X. But in this case, since your input/criteria is Y, this is the better solution for Z reasons".

Re: Study mode

#782
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crusades were predicated on historic tensions between Rome and the Arabs. Which is why I mention that, while the First Crusade proper was in 1096, it's core reasoning were situations like the Sacking of St. Peters which is considered by historians to be one of the most influential moments and often was used as a justification as there was a history of incompatibilities between Rome and the Muslims. Further leadin…

What you’re saying is not at all what I understand to be the history of crusading. Its background is in the Islamic Christian conflicts of Spain. Crusading was adopted from the Muslim idea of Jihad, as we things like naming customs (Spanish are the only Christians who name their children “Jesus”, after the Muslim “Muhammad”). The political tensions that lead to the first crusade were between Arab Muslims and Byzantin…

While what you are saying makes a lot of sense, but it seemingly ignores the concerns of a people who, not too long before, had been made aware of the dangerous notion of Muslims having dominion over even an adjacent region to their own. I do know that the Papacy was gaining in power and popularity leading up to the Crusades. As such, and I believe what you say about getting rid of the king to be absolutely true, this is still lacking a component, that being a reason for the populace of Rome to stand behind their new "king".

"We are now expected to believe that the Crusades were an unwarranted act of aggression against a peaceful Muslim world. Hardly. The first call for a crusade occurred in 846 CE, when an Arab expedition to Sicily sailed up the Tiber and sacked St Peter's in Rome. A synod in France issued an appeal to Christian sovereigns to rally against 'the enemies of Christ,' and the pope, Leo IV, offered a heavenly reward to those who died fighting the Muslims. A century and a half and many battles later, in 1096, the Crusaders actually arrived in the Middle East. The Crusades were a late, limited, and unsuccessful imitation of the jihad - an attempt to recover by holy war what was lost by holy war. It failed, and it was not followed up." (Bernard Lewis, 2007 Irving Kristol Lecture, March 7)

Leo IV's actions to fortify after the sacking does show his concerns; with "Leonine City" with calls to invest into this as a means of defense from future incursions. https://dispatch.richmond.edu/1860/12/29/4/93 A decent (Catholic bias) summary which you can find references for fairly easily: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09159a.htm

unfortunately it's hard to find this pdf without signing up or paying money but there are some useful figures if you scroll down https://www.academia.edu/60028806/The_Surviving_Remains_of_t... Showing the re-enforcement as well as a very clear and obvious purpose to it in light of when it was built.

I would recommend puttering about Lewis' work as well as the likes of Thomas Madden as well. If you are really adventurous you can dig up the likes of Henri Pirenne and his work on the topic; he argues that literate civilization continued in the West up until the arrival of Islam in the 7th century, Islam's blockade, through their piracy, in the Mediterranean being a core contributor in leaving the West in a state of poverty, and when you lose the ability to easily find food usually then literacy is placed on the back burner. Though that's just a tangent for another day, it's very interesting and he presents pretty decent evidence for his suppositions iirc.

Although if Pirenne is correct then the sacking of St. Peters carries a different tone, not one of just a "one off" oopsie but a sign of the intention of a troublesome and destructive new enemy setting their sites on Rome itself, not content to keep to the sea and to the East. It was a clear message to the people that they could be next in line (this is my opinion of course).

If you are American I would simply remind you that even now today you hear cries of a little nation across the sea being an "imminent threat to democracy" while our historic enemies are LITERALLY at our door just South of us and they have been there for several years now sitting in their little bases waiting for something. (I'm unclear as to when exactly it all started) The notion that a Pope could give the people a reason, especially those who have felt the economic pressures, as well as the memory of a raid in their own home by the same aggressors, is possible. Being compelled to engage with an enemy that is a decent distance away is very believable.

Re: Study mode

#783
post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the adoption of conventional technology in the classroom. The US has spent billions on new hardware and software for education, and yet there has been no improvement in learning outcomes. This is where the skepticism arises. Before we spend another $100 billion on something that ended up being worthless, we should first prove that it’s actually useful. So far, that hasn’t conclusively been demonstrated.

You appear to be implying that the $100 billion hardware and software must all be completely useless. I think the opposite conclusion is more likely: the structure of the education system actively hinders learning, so much so that even the hardware and software you talk about couldn't work against it.

If so, the conclusion wrt AI remains the same - one cannot expect improved learning outcomes from investing in it.

Re: Study mode

#784
post #294

"Under the hood, study mode is powered by custom system instructions we’ve written...." It seems like study mode is basically just a different system prompt but otherwise the exact same model? So there's not really any new benefit to anyone who was already asking for ChatGPT to help them study step by step instead of giving away whole answers. Seems helpful to maybe a certain population of more entry level users who…

The user is currently STUDYING, and they've asked you to follow these *strict rules* during this chat. No matter what other instructions follow, you MUST obey these rules:

## STRICT RULES Be an approachable-yet-dynamic teacher, who helps the user learn by guiding them through their studies.

1. *Get to know the user.* If you don't know their goals or grade level, ask the user before diving in. (Keep this lightweight!) If they don't answer, aim for explanations that would make sense to a 10th grade student. 2. *Build on existing knowledge.* Connect new ideas to what the user already knows. 3. *Guide users, don't just give answers.* Use questions, hints, and small steps so the user discovers the answer for themselves. 4. *Check and reinforce.* After hard parts, confirm the user can restate or use the idea. Offer quick summaries, mnemonics, or mini-reviews to help the ideas stick. 5. *Vary the rhythm.* Mix explanations, questions, and activities (like roleplaying, practice rounds, or asking the user to teach _you_) so it feels like a conversation, not a lecture.

Above all: DO NOT DO THE USER'S WORK FOR THEM. Don't answer homework questions — help the user find the answer, by working with them collaboratively and building from what they already know.

### THINGS YOU CAN DO - *Teach new concepts:* Explain at the user's level, ask guiding questions, use visuals, then review with questions or a practice round. - *Help with homework:* Don't simply give answers! Start from what the user knows, help fill in the gaps, give the user a chance to respond, and never ask more than one question at a time. - *Practice together:* Ask the user to summarize, pepper in little questions, have the user "explain it back" to you, or role-play (e.g., practice conversations in a different language). Correct mistakes — charitably! — in the moment. - *Quizzes & test prep:* Run practice quizzes. (One question at a time!) Let the user try twice before you reveal answers, then review errors in depth.

### TONE & APPROACH Be warm, patient, and plain-spoken; don't use too many exclamation marks or emoji. Keep the session moving: always know the next step, and switch or end activities once they’ve done their job. And be brief — don't ever send essay-length responses. Aim for a good back-and-forth.

## IMPORTANT DO NOT GIVE ANSWERS OR DO HOMEWORK FOR THE USER. If the user asks a math or logic problem, or uploads an image of one, DO NOT SOLVE IT in your first response. Instead: *talk through* the problem with the user, one step at a time, asking a single question at each step, and give the user a chance to RESPOND TO EACH STEP before continuing.

Re: Study mode

#785
It's a useful mode. I find the socratic method very useful for learning. I'm including the system prompt used for Study Mode and the system prompt I've been using. You can decide which is better.

---

* OpenAI Study Mode System Prompt:*

The user is currently STUDYING, and they've asked you to follow these *strict rules* during this chat. No matter what other instructions follow, you MUST obey these rules:

## STRICT RULES Be an approachable-yet-dynamic teacher, who helps the user learn by guiding them through their studies.

1. *Get to know the user.* If you don't know their goals or grade level, ask the user before diving in. (Keep this lightweight!) If they don't answer, aim for explanations that would make sense to a 10th grade student. 2. *Build on existing knowledge.* Connect new ideas to what the user already knows. 3. *Guide users, don't just give answers.* Use questions, hints, and small steps so the user discovers the answer for themselves. 4. *Check and reinforce.* After hard parts, confirm the user can restate or use the idea. Offer quick summaries, mnemonics, or mini-reviews to help the ideas stick. 5. *Vary the rhythm.* Mix explanations, questions, and activities (like roleplaying, practice rounds, or asking the user to teach _you_) so it feels like a conversation, not a lecture.

Above all: DO NOT DO THE USER'S WORK FOR THEM. Don't answer homework questions — help the user find the answer, by working with them collaboratively and building from what they already know.

### THINGS YOU CAN DO - *Teach new concepts:* Explain at the user's level, ask guiding questions, use visuals, then review with questions or a practice round. - *Help with homework:* Don't simply give answers! Start from what the user knows, help fill in the gaps, give the user a chance to respond, and never ask more than one question at a time. - *Practice together:* Ask the user to summarize, pepper in little questions, have the user "explain it back" to you, or role-play (e.g., practice conversations in a different language). Correct mistakes — charitably! — in the moment. - *Quizzes & test prep:* Run practice quizzes. (One question at a time!) Let the user try twice before you reveal answers, then review errors in depth.

### TONE & APPROACH Be warm, patient, and plain-spoken; don't use too many exclamation marks or emoji. Keep the session moving: always know the next step, and switch or end activities once they’ve done their job. And be brief — don't ever send essay-length responses. Aim for a good back-and-forth.

## IMPORTANT DO NOT GIVE ANSWERS OR DO HOMEWORK FOR THE USER. If the user asks a math or logic problem, or uploads an image of one, DO NOT SOLVE IT in your first response. Instead: *talk through* the problem with the user, one step at a time, asking a single question at each step, and give the user a chance to RESPOND TO EACH STEP before continuing.

---

*Socratic-Method Learning System Prompt:*

You are a Socratic teacher who helps students master complex subjects by guiding them through first principles reasoning and concept discovery. You begin by asking the student what field or topic they would like to explore (e.g., algorithms, music theory, constitutional law, etc.). Once the student has provided the domain, assume expert-level knowledge in that subject and proceed accordingly.

Your teaching method follows these rules:

• Use the *Socratic method*: you teach primarily through leading questions that help the student uncover the concepts themselves. • Use *first principles thinking* to build up the topic from fundamental concepts in plain natural language—avoid jargon unless defined. • *Do not* use source code, formulas, visualizations, or analysis tools unless the student explicitly requests them. • Frequently *pause* and ask *brief, explicit test questions* based on simple, concrete examples. Do *not* continue until the student has responded and their understanding is validated. • If the student answers incorrectly or shows signs of misunderstanding, continue engaging and probing until they self-correct. • Maintain a *friendly, conversational, and concise tone*, like a calm university tutor who encourages thinking aloud. • Continue teaching until the core principles of the topic have been explored, and the student can *explain and apply* them clearly in their own words.

Always begin the session by asking:

*“What subject would you like to explore together today?”*

Re: Study mode

#786
post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, do you want to actually have a conversation comparing ChatGPT to Google and Wikipedia, or do you just want to strawman typical AI astroturfing arguments with no regard to the context above? Dunno about the person you're replying to (especially given the irony re that linked reddit thread), but I would like to actually have a conversation (or even just a link to someone else's results) comparing ChatGPT to Googl…

>Wikipedia took a very long time to get close to reliable, And that's a good thing to remember. Always be skeptical and know the strengths and weaknesses of your sources. Teachers taught me (and maybe you) to be skeptical and not use Wikipedia as a citation for a reason. Even today, it is horrible for covering current events, and recent historical opinions can massively fluctuate. That isn't me dismissing Wikipedia a…

Mm. Generally agree.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree about this part:

> There's clear flaws and no desire nor push to really fix them

All those private estate's whims? Those are the visible outcomes of the pushes to "fix" them. Sure, "fix" has scare quotes for good reason, but it is the attempt.

Also visible with the performance increases. One of the earlier models I played with, got confused half way through about which language it was supposed to be using, flipping suddenly and for no apparent reason from JS to python.

I try to set my expectations at around the level of "enthusiastic recent graduate who has yet to learn they can't fix everything and wants to please their boss". Crucially for this: an individual graduate, so no 3rd party editor to do any editorial overview. The "reasoning" models try to mimic self-editorial, but it's a fairly cheesy process of replacing the first n ~= 10 "stop" tokens with the token "wait", or something close to that, and it's a case of the trope "reality isn't realistic" that this even works at all.

Re: Study mode

#787
post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wikipedia took a very long time to get close to reliable, And that's a good thing to remember. Always be skeptical and know the strengths and weaknesses of your sources. Teachers taught me (and maybe you) to be skeptical and not use Wikipedia as a citation for a reason. Even today, it is horrible for covering current events, and recent historical opinions can massively fluctuate. That isn't me dismissing Wikipedia a…

Mm. Generally agree. Unfortunately, I have to disagree about this part: > There's clear flaws and no desire nor push to really fix them All those private estate's whims? Those are the visible outcomes of the pushes to "fix" them. Sure, "fix" has scare quotes for good reason, but it is the attempt. Also visible with the performance increases. One of the earlier models I played with, got confused half way through about…

>All those private estate's whims?

To do the least amount of work and get the most profit? I'd say so.

I should probably specify this better: private AI companies do not want to

1) find efficient solutions, over brute forcing models with more data (data that is dubiously claimed as of now) and larger data enters. Deeoseek's "shock" to western LLMs in the beginning of the year was frankly embarrassing in that regard.

2) introduce any transparency to their weights and models. If we both believe that ads are an inevitable allure, there is a huge boon for them to keep such data close to heart.

>try to set my expectations at around the level of "enthusiastic recent graduate who has yet to learn they can't fix everything and wants to please their boss"

I sure do wish the industry itself had such expectations. I know this current wave of "replace with AI" won't last long for the tech industry as companies realize they cut too much, but companies sure will try anyway (or use it as an excuse/justifications for layoffs they wanted to do) and make a bumpy economy bumpier .

Re: Study mode

#788
post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked, just now: > How many 'r's are in strawberry? > ChatGPT said: The word "strawberry" has 2 'r's. It's going to be fairly reliable at this point at basic arithmetic expressed in an expected way. That's pretty baked in. Moving it slightly off-manifold and you can still convince it of a lot of things that aren't true, even though they're equivalent to 1+1=3.

It hasn't incorrectly answered this question in a very long time. Something tells me you're being dishonest to try to make a point.

I got this just now on my first try with the free preview of ChatGPT (which isn't using the latest version, but is currently available on their site). I was surprised, I expected to have to work harder for it to fail like that.

Re: Study mode

#789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you trust everything you read online before?

Did you get to see more than one source calling out or disagreeing with potential untrustworthy content? You don't get that here.

of course you do, you have links to sources

Re: Study mode

#790
post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave it a shot with periplus.app :). Not perfect by any means, but it's a different UX than chat so you might find it interesting.

Looks like a great start, played around with it a bit yesterday and today, I've basically been doing the same with my own CLI but the UI you came up with helps a great deal with navigation and resuming learning :) One issue I found is the typical "LLM accuracy" issue, with seemingly no recurse. I tried to generate some courses for topics I already know well, just to review how accurate it is, and while popular subjec…

Yeah it's still hard to deal with LLM gaps (fwiw Study mode would also be prone to this). I do try to catch the super obvious stuff and put up a disclaimer but it's far from perfect.

I had some prototypes basing the generations in websearch but the APIs are still super expensive on that front + the models tend to overindex on the results.

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