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Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

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Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I completely understand the slippery slope concept, we ban all kinds of things for under 18s based on morals. Why couldn't these be any different? How else does a society decide as a whole what they are for or against. Obviously, there should be limits.

The question is always “whose morals”. I think society as a whole is in agreement that minors are better off without access to pornography, for example. But the arrangement OP is outlining is one where a minority are able to force their morality on a broader population that doesn’t agree with it.

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Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#782
post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero knowledge proofs are the solution. The website sends the verification function to the user device. The user device then returns a proof that it knows an input that the verification function accepts. The verification function should include a digital signature check. This is generally possible already with SSI based credentials, including standards created by W3C.

Or attribute-based credentials. Basically, you're challenged and get a one-time, challenger-specific credential for exactly the requested attribute(s) from a credential provider. Eg. government (municipality, province, national) can become a credential provider. Eg. Yivy: https://docs.yivi.app/technical-overview/

Exactly. Yivi isn’t new having been renamed from IRMA (https://privacybydesign.foundation/en/). Nevertheless, adoption outside the Netherlands remains almost non-existent.

Except for the additional download requirement for a user, the friction is pretty low once it’s setup and you have created some attributes.

The project would benefit from a rebranding review, standardization, an enterprise-capable infrastructure to promote and support alternative service providers, and a review of clients. The current Yivi mobile app hasn’t changed much over the years and when I last used it I still needed a PIN instead Face ID.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#783
post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring someone to have a government ID isn't anywhere near 100% effective because people will just borrow one from dad's wallet while he's not looking or use a device already signed in as someone else or the high school freshmen will get one from the high school seniors etc. If we're admitting solutions that aren't 100% effective, why can't we admit solutions that aren't 100% effective but are much better at prese…

Well this time around the phone will ask the person presenting an ID for biometrics before allowing them to use Dad’s ID. We are improving. There is no perfect solution; we don’t live in a perfect world. Surely we shouldn’t give up and regulate nothing…

> Well this time around the phone will ask the person presenting an ID for biometrics before allowing them to use Dad’s ID. We are improving.

How is this improving? It's the most invasive proposal yet, serves to prohibit devices that are controlled by their owners and still doesn't actually work because a) there are still a zillion devices with security vulnerabilities and b) none of this applies to websites hosted in other jurisdictions, so you're not actually limiting the access of minors to anything, you're only inconveniencing anyone who does have servers in the US or interacts with any that are. Which is an extremely large number of people to trouble for a benefit that rounds to zero.

> Surely we shouldn’t give up and regulate nothing...

When we're in the category of speech, let's go with this option all the way to the wall.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some states stores are required to scan IDs. I'd be surprised if e.g. Kroger weren't storing that information. All of these porn laws I've read at least ban any storage. As far as I know digital ID standards are also at least designed to allow only sharing "over18" without other identifying information.

Kroger is most definitely storing this information. I rarely shop any Kroger store, but when they started doing IDs scans, I shop there less and no longer buy anything that requires my ID.

Similarly, Wal-Mart seems to know who I am based on my card transactions. When I swipe my card they ask if I would like a paper or an SMS receipt. I’m still not sure how they got that number association.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#785
post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The intent of the ISO spec is to allow you to request fine-grained data, like birth year only, but if you read the W3C standard, they explicitly call out privacy as a complex thing that maybe should be regulated. Aren't the regulations the problem here? If not for that nobody would be getting pressured to divulge this personal information to every shady app and website in the first place. Suppose I want to make a s…

Are you arguing that we should not regulate porn, alcohol, and cigarettes? Or that we shouldn’t have digital ways to do the regulating we’ve been doing for decades? If the discussion was a question of whether to regulate or not, I’d see more where you’re coming from. But the discussion is about how to effectively respond to the enforcement of existing laws now against websites. Society has grown up and we’re not comf…

> Are you arguing that we should not regulate porn, alcohol, and cigarettes?

Most of the important regulations around these things have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Requiring bourbon not to contain methanol and adult performers to be tested for STDs aren't related to the internet.

And once we're talking about the internet, those things are in a different category because alcohol and cigarettes are physical objects. You can't download vodka from Russia.

Whereas if you want to stop kids from downloading porn from other parts of the world, the police state that would require is the thing wars have been fought against and righteously so. Not because of the porn but because of what it would take to actually make those laws effective, and what it would be used for as soon as it's in place.

But ineffective laws aren't worth having, because they're all costs with no benefits, not least because then people will keep trying to make them effective and the only means to do that is the police state.

> Society has grown up and we’re not comfortable giving the internet a pass because digital identity is hard.

I feel like this kind of language is designed to make people angry. As if you're not an adult if you can look at a trade off against privacy and free speech and say "that's not worth having" instead of implementing every creeping authoritarian proposal specifically because the last one didn't solve the problem.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#786
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Site generates random key Key and verification passed to verifier Verified list is published Site pulls list and checks its number has been verified Site doesn’t know who it is, and verifier doesn’t know which site was verified against

Break the key in half. Otherwise, why wouldn’t I just try the last entries from that list?

They key would be hashed with the user’s details (ip address, value in a session cookie etc) so someone else can’t reuse it. Hell there are things like elliptic curves and DH which still seem magic to me.

Now sure if the identity provider and the site work together they could negate the anonymity, but given that for the identity provider anonymisation would be the key selling feature they wouldn’t want to risk that. Mullvad I’m sure would be trustworthy enough.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I imagine they were referring to the behavior of cis men Secondly, it's not clear which group you're bigoted over—trans folks or drag queens

[flagged]

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#788
post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between one and two is being able to link two things I did. If you know who I am, that barely affects me. But if you can then cross-check whether I also went ballroom dancing, or went to a golf course, or went to a sexclub, or went to a ball-game. Then it starts affecting me.

Just don’t consent to sharing your data to third parties for marketing or research purposes. In civilized world there exist laws which give you this right. It is surely not the problem with ID verification or storage.

Giving your data to a website is the same as giving it to a stranger on the bus. Maybe closer to going to a seedy part of town and giving your ID to random criminal and hoping they don't do anything unscrupulous.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#789

All these ID check laws are out of hand. Parents are expecting the government, and random websites, to raise their kids. Why would anyone trust some random blog with their ID? If these laws move forward (and I don’t think they should), there needs to be a way to authenticate as over 18 without sending picture of your ID off to random 3rd parties, or giving actual personal details. I don’t want to give this data, and…

> Why would anyone trust some random blog with their ID? They won't have to, most websites will use 3rd party age verification. This is basically what Doordash and Uber Eats use to verify your age before delivering alcohol or THC to your apartment. Rife for abuse? Absolutely. Will these databases get leaked and increase the chances of your identity getting stolen? Yes. But isn't a small increase to an already-existin…

Those drivers check my ID at the door.

Re: Supreme Court's ruling practically wipes out free speech for sex writing online

#790
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Supreme Court agrees they are constitutional then they clearly are constitutional, unless you think the constitution doesn’t apply

> The Constitution of the United States was a layman's document, not a lawyer's contract. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/address-constituti... The Supreme Court is not the ultimate decider of what the layman's document means. It was wrong when it decided, for instance, Plessy v. Ferguson. The law that the Court upheld patently violated the Fourteenth Amendment and was unconstitutional. The Supreme Court wa…

It can both be wrong and the ultimate decider.
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