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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#781

Post by alephnerd »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #767
bumby wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

Honestly, good! I am so tired of these insane "I want nothing but an engine" spiritual boomers. They are making the road far more dangerous for everyone. Yes, I will force you to have automatic emergency breaking in your Model T hotrod. Yes, you will be mad. Yes, the road will be a lot safer. No I don't care about your boomer rage about technology. No you don't want to live with India tier road laws/standards - even…

+1.

Even consumers voted with their pocketbooks in favor of this towards the end given the failure of the Nissa Versa and the Toyota Yaris in the American and Canadian market.

Also, there's a reason those $15K Toyotas, Suzukis, and Mitsubishis are sold in Thailand and India, and not in Japan - they don't even meet safety standards in their home country (and it's Toyota, Suzuki, and Mitsubishi that essentially sets standards for all of Japan).

Automotive companies like Toyota create different platforms based on the kind of market. All emerging markets use the IMV [0] platform except China, which has it's own separate platform because of China's JV and ToT requirement.

Ofc, HN skews towards gearheads and people who seem to have been born in the 1960s-80s, so it won't have great reception.

[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_IMV_platform

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#782

Post by vel0city »

bumby wrote: post #768
vel0city wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pure ICE transmission is probably far more mechanically complicated than the transmission of a series hybrid. The pure ICE engine and transmission has to deal with some of the most stressful times the motor can handle, extremely high torque demands coming from a stop. Its far less stressful for an electric motor to generate good torque at such low RPMs. Just two quick examples.

I think you’re still conflating EVs and hybrids. A hybrid has an ICE that is distinct from the mechanical transmission. Hybrids tend to run off the ICE at high speeds because it’s more efficient and use the ICE to charge the battery.

> A series hybrid

A key part of my original statement.

A series hybrid or parallel series hybrid will often have a far simpler transmission in terms of moving parts and what not. You're right, they'll use the gas motor for power going highway speeds, but they're still a lot simpler. Many hybrids effectively only have a single speed for the ICE motor in their "transmission", some have 2-4, compared to modern ICE transmissions which are like 7+ gears.

Note, I do agree, there are some hybrid drive trains that are more complicated than their ICE counterparts, but it is not a given. Many hybrids are a good bit simpler in the end.

One example of a simpler setup would be Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive. e-CVT's can be radically simpler mechanically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#783

Post by Der_Einzige »

kube-system wrote: post #731
yks wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to sell a few year old used car, the paper trail of the professionally done service is a bonus.

Maybe private party, but I've saved this stuff up before and dealers DGAF.

The vast majority of people make a very stupid decision by selling to a dealer and not selling private party.

A lot of Americans become very low IQ in the context of any car related financial decisions. Off loading their vehicles is one of the classic examples of this. Do NOT sell to your dealer. Carvana is the only exception and only because you can easily offload messed up cars to them without disclosing it.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#784

Post by DiggyJohnson »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #767
bumby wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

Honestly, good! I am so tired of these insane "I want nothing but an engine" spiritual boomers. They are making the road far more dangerous for everyone. Yes, I will force you to have automatic emergency breaking in your Model T hotrod. Yes, you will be mad. Yes, the road will be a lot safer. No I don't care about your boomer rage about technology. No you don't want to live with India tier road laws/standards - even…

Spiritual boomers?

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#785

Post by mlinhares »

LUmBULtERA wrote: post #764
kube-system wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could get a Mirage on discount at many dealer's lots for 10k just a few years ago, they weren't hot sellers. They were selling at 4% of the volume of the Camry. Drive one and it's immediately obvious why Americans weren't buying them.

Few years ago? Okay, few is 2 or 3 years. I see MSRP for a base model of Mirage in 2023 was $16,245... 2022 was $14,625? When I was buying a car in that time period, there were no discounts below MSRP anywhere I looked for almost anything. Especially anything cheap. I've read a lot of reports of big mark ups for even Mirage's during that time period.

COVID wasn't a good time to buy anything. Companies go where the profits are, if americans were buying tons of smaller cars instead of large trucks and suvs, the companies would be building that.

All Asian/European carmakers have tons of options available everywhere else they could bring here but they don't cos people just don't buy them. Even sedans are harder to sell today, the US is its own cosmos and trying to coerce it into "small family car" when all the ads are about being a rugged f150 driver is very hard.

Look at how people talk about minivans here, all about "the emasculation of men". It would require a lot of leadership to change the market perspective on these cars or americans getting very poor for it to work. It is also incredibly convenient, I myself drive a large SUV that's larger than the average WW2 tank and its insanely convenient to have that much space for a family of 6.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#786

Post by xienze »

dylan604 wrote: post #653
kachapopopow wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are saying that you can't find a used car for cheap anymore more than anything.

After the supply chain crisis which saw used car prices look like new car prices, the used market really never came back to a sane level. I also wonder how many people are in the market for cars old enough to not have all of the telemetry tracking, "everything is computer" touchscreen nonsense which could be having an effect on the supply/demand of that part of the used car market. I recently bought a car specificall…

Cash for Clunkers is what really kickstarted the distortion of the used car market.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#787

Post by dismalaf »

trinix912 wrote: post #706
dismalaf wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a big part of owning a vehicle is summer roadtrips, ski vacations, visiting family, moving stuff. An SUV is simply more convenient. I've also found road maintenance is getting worse where I live, it's almost necessary having an SUV or truck just to navigate the suburbs. Also the (semi) compact crossover has kind of killed the compact car. You get more space, better ground clearance, for a decent price.

Nothing my family couldn't do with plain Honda Civics. If you want more space in the back, there are also long versions of VW Passat and various Skoda models. Heck, SUVs usually have way less trunk space than those - they're just taller than your average sedan, but not any longer. You can see outside just fine, and get around with 5-6L/100km efficiency.

A VW Passat is a pretty long vehicle, a Škoda Kodiaq is actually shorter. Less length = easier to park, especially in Europe.

And I'm old enough that I used to do everything with a beater compact car (Saab 900 Turbo, was lots of fun) when I was young, it was fine, ish. Now I have a family, and if I want to bring along the in-laws as well it's more efficient and generally easier to bring 1 large vehicle versus 2 small ones.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#788

Post by kayodelycaon »

bumby wrote: post #765
kube-system wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the name, "eCVT"s are mechanically unrelated to the CVTs used in gasoline cars. They are mechanically similar to a differential, and have extremely low failure rates.

Thanks for clarifying! It does seem like the planetary design would be more reliable (but the point able heavy loads may still apply)

The gears easily handle the instant torque of electric motors from thousands of full-throttle standing starts.

The electric motors are the limiting factor when it comes to continuous performance. You really don’t want to tow anything heavy with a hybrid.

If you need to tow things a lot, get a pickup truck or a heavy-duty SUV with a gas engine.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#789

Post by korse »

wsc981 wrote: post #702
csomar wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) You'll need to provide hard evidence for this. I was pretty young in 2005 but $15.000 would get you a decent car (though not a pickup). That being said, it is possible we have more models now under 25.000 but what $15/25k used to buy you (segment wise) has downgraded.

In 2024 Toyota in Thailand introduced a cheap pick-up that is a bit under 15.000 USD when THB is converted to USD. I think it's rather neat - the basic model is /very/ basic, but lots of options to customize. https://www.toyota.co.th/en/model/hilux_champ?tab=commercial...

Lol it is the Hilux.

This requires posting related info-graphic. Cheers.

https://files.catbox.moe/2d1rwq.webp

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#790

Post by _DeadFred_ »

thaawyy33432434 wrote: post #755
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

hard to compare 2005 ford focus or toyota corolla with 2025 model year. A lot of more feature, cars are safer etc.

There is no 2025 Ford Focus in the US.
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