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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#781

Post by yibg »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #690
n1b0m wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the start of Israel’s assault on Gaza, the vast majority of Israelis haven’t shown any concern about the suffering in Gaza. Those who campaign for an end to the war do so purely as a means to secure the release of the hostages.

That's not surprising. They remember the scenes of ecstatic celebration on the streets of Gaza and the West Bank on october 7. And the fact is that the people of Gaza could end the conflict whenever they want. All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it.

What does surrender even mean here? How do Gazans surrender?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#782

Post by viccis »

rendang wrote: post #777
like_any_other wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd probably be considered left (or even far-left) by Israeli standards, but I'm in the "pro-Israeli" camp as conventionally understood online. Would you consider ethno-nationalists of other nations (far) left, based on (speculating) their economic/women's rights/LGBT/other social stances? (Orthogonally, I can certainly empathize with being pro-something, but not pro-everything-that-something-does. There's certainl…

Nationalism could be seen as a "left" movement in the first place in that it often served as an ideology of revolution against the (imperial) powers that be. There have been many prominent leftist nationalist movements and parties, from Sinn Fein to the PKK. "ethnonationalism" is a redundancy, ethne and natio are just the Greek and Latin words for the same concept

>"ethnonationalism" is a redundancy, ethne and natio are just the Greek and Latin words for the same concept

This is sophistic equivocating. Stratification based on ethnicity is neither a necessary nor essential component of nationalism.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#783

Post by wfn »

bGl2YW5j wrote: post #768
wfn wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do we place Israel on that scale That is, I think, an excellent and pertinent question. For starters may I suggest applying straightforward quantification on a linear scale and observing the results? See the following two wiki articles / subsections: 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co... (see chart preceding the Gaza war (follow anchor)) 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties…

Wikipedia on this topic is incredibly biased to one side or the other. It’s not a valid source in this case.

Do you mean the data sources it lists in those two articles are not valid? (I am referring to raw figures and not to actual textual content even). The charts themselves (and the proportions thereof) have been observed everywhere incl. in the mainstream media?

Can you present one counterexample as regards quantities / proportions of figures please? One source. (More of course if you'd like)

(My implicit point is that the proportions are so one-sided (orders of magnitude in difference; yes plural) that you will not find one; but please do find one (with actual quantities) and we can all check veracity of your source)

P.S. edit here is one of the sources the first wiki article lists (of multiple):

Lappin, Yaakov (2009). "IDF releases Cast Lead casualty numbers". The Jerusalem Post. Archived from the original on 26 March 2013. Retrieved 5 January 2024. =>

- https://www.jpost.com/israel/idf-releases-cast-lead-casualty...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20130326192603/http://www.jpost....

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#784

Post by viccis »

edanm wrote: post #626
the__alchemist wrote: post #218

Some context first so my opinion isn't misconstrued as as leftist stereotype. This is within context of the behavior described in the article. - I'm a Jew in USA, and served in the military for more than a decade. - I used to get annoyed by the Palestinian protests I'd see in the years before this, and generally sided with Israel, and the operations its military performed in counter-Shia-militia operations etc in the…

I'll provide context too - I'm a Jewish Israeli. I'd probably be considered left (or even far-left) by Israeli standards, but I'm in the "pro-Israeli" camp as conventionally understood online. This Haaretz article is very troubling. To the extent it's accurate, there's not much question that it reflects war crimes. A few thoughts: 1. The article itself says there is an ongoing investigation into some of these accusat…

>GHF Interim Director John Acree stated, "There have been no incidents or fatalities at or in the immediate vicinity of any of our distribution sites."

Isn't there a video of dismembered body parts after the mortar shell hit and killed a few dozen?

It sounds like if he is making such a clear statement as this, there should be an investigation, and, if it turns out there were such fatalities, then Acree (and many others) should be tried for covering up war crimes.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#785

Post by mandmandam »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #731
Aeolun wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it. “The people of Gaza” have about as much chance of doing this as the ICC has of arresting and putting Netanyahu on trial.

Maybe maybe not but i see no major movement in Gaza towards surrendering. Of course seeing how the UN and most media outlets are working so well to supress any anti hamas narratives in Gaza (it's either that, or everyone in Gaza supports hamas, an absurd suggestion but one which would ironically fully vindicate Israel. The dishonesty of the UN upsets me) , even if there was we would be unlikely to hear about it.

> Of course seeing how the UN and most media outlets are working so well to supress any anti hamas narratives in Gaza

... You have evidence of this? Or, are you making things up without any evidence at all to smear the UN; as we've seen Israel do countless times during this holocaust?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#786

Post by modzu »

alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

[flagged]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#787

Post by [deleted] »

yibg wrote: post #781
FridayoLeary wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not surprising. They remember the scenes of ecstatic celebration on the streets of Gaza and the West Bank on october 7. And the fact is that the people of Gaza could end the conflict whenever they want. All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it.

What does surrender even mean here? How do Gazans surrender?

[deleted]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#789

Post by Slava_Propanei »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #686
neepi wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like getting involved in political threads but on this I have to. All information presented is mostly unverified testimony printed verbatim by the press from untrustworthy sources on both sides. It's difficult to tell what is fact and what is not. A lot of early reports in this war turned out to be false information and the rush to immediate news notification rather than quality journalism means that the head…

The information is unverified because Israel does not allow journalists into Gaza.

[dead]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#790

Post by vFunct »

stormfather wrote: post #389
vFunct wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Netanyahu, when addressing the troops, even said "Do not forget what Amalek has done to you", invoking the memory of the biblical commandment to genocide the Amalekites.

Reposting as it was flagged by Zionists:

You don't have to have sympathy for them. Their religion literally tells them to kill children to steal their land:

"However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you." - Deuteronomy 20:16-17

And now they are literally doing it.

I wondered how an entire ethnic group could be so depraved and removed from humanity, where literally hundreds of thousands of their members in Hebrew Telegram channels cheer on children being burned alive. And now I know that, it was always their religion that caused their depraved behavior. From a philosophy of racial superiority to literally commands to kill children to steal their land. It was always going to come to this genocidal conclusion.

It's perfectly fine to say Judaism should be canceled, given how Jews are behaving publicly and without shame in their desire to steal land and kill children. They literally don't know that they're not supposed to steal land and kill children. They believe that's completely fine.

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