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Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#781

Post by mlhpdx »

lupusreal wrote: post #456
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just drivers normalising the breaking of the speed limits. If you raise the limits just because drivers are going faster, then the drivers will just increase their speeds until again, a majority of drivers are breaking the limit. Speed limits should be defined to reduce the harm from the inevitable crashes e.g. we have a lot of 20mph limits here in the UK in cities such as Bristol which are designed to reduce…

> If you raise the limits just because drivers are going faster, then the drivers will just increase their speeds until again No. Most people who drive significantly faster than the limit are disregarding the limit and are driving at the speed they feel to be safe. They aren't considering the limit and blindly choosing to drive X over it, such that they'd drive X even faster even if the posted limit were raised by X.…

> Their objective was "drive at the speed which is safe for this road"

Not really. The problem people are not prioritizing safety, they are rushing in an ego fueled spasm of disobedience and disrespect.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#782

Post by asoneth »

ryao wrote: post #644
asoneth wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem reasonable to find out what works in other countries and pursue the most effective and freedom-preserving approaches. However, in the interim I'd support draconian measures (e.g. cameras, speed limiters, more effective consequences) until Americans demonstrate empirically that they are capable of operating dangerous equipment with some degree of competence.

What interim? These are mutually exclusive approaches. Either you mimic what is known to work elsewhere, or you institute backward measures under the misguided claim that it helps. There is no embarking on both paths at once, since they involve doing largely opposite things.

The grand-parent suggested that the source of low German fatalities despite higher speeds is a driving culture that has respect for the "correct" way to do things.

Can you explain how you think encouraging such a culture would be at odds with measures like cameras or speed limiters? I'm also unsure why you think it's "misguided" to expect those technologies to help reduce behaviors like illegal speeding.

I don't see them at odds myself, but if you are correct then I would just support the draconian measures alone. I have low confidence that such a broken driving culture can be fixed and that American drivers can be trusted to follow the rules and stop killing so many people.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#783

Post by shpongled »

allenrb wrote: post #224

Speed limiters built into cars. Anti-infringement technology built into general-purpose computers. And yet, guns and ammo freely available and unrestricted outside of automatic weapons and the like? Yeah. Can’t wait to move off-grid someday. (Yes, obviously American) I’ve got enough sense to keep it slow and safe in populated areas, yet occasionally open it up elsewhere when conditions are right. Guess that’s another…

Firearms are a constitutionally enshrined right - driving is not. For the vast majority of Americans, cars represent a significantly higher threat than assault by gun [1]. We also let drivers flagrantly and repeatedly break the law and negligently kill people with essentially near-impunity. The same cannot be said for firearms.

[1] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-o...

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#784

Post by esbranson »

Starting off with superfluous agitprop... And ending with it. Hate for Trump is classic misdirection, it's amazing just how much propaganda is in even the most basic public policy articles.

Like, damn, it was the Biden administration that told the NTSB to go pound sand.[1]

[1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-04/NHTSA-NT...

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#785

Post by ryao »

op00to wrote: post #637
ryao wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are typically no pedestrians on highways. Being a pedestrian on a high way is hazardous no matter what the speed limit is for any realistic speed limit. If the cars move faster, they will get off the road faster. This means fewer vehicles on the road and the distances between the vehicles will increase. It is a linear effect if you adapt a flow equation to vehicles. Here is the equation off the top of my head:…

Traffic flow theory looks tidy on a whiteboard, but real roads don’t follow V D L arithmetic. Drivers open their following gaps faster than speed rises, so capacity peaks around 55 mph at roughly 2 000 veh/h/ln. Push limits higher and flow falls while crash energy soars. Because kinetic energy scales with the square of velocity (½ mv²), a 20 mph jump doesn’t give you 33 % more punch, it delivers nearly 80 % more. NHT…

> Traffic flow theory looks tidy on a whiteboard, but real roads don’t follow V D L arithmetic.

I have been paying attention to speed changes while driving for the past 15 years and every time I have seen a speed change, I always observe a proportional change in the other variables, within the bounds of my ability to measure. For example, speeds drop when lane counts decrease, and the difference is in proportion to the reduction in lanes and change in vehicle density. The change in things in logically forced, since cars are not magically disappearing/appearing on the road.

Empirical studies have long supported the 85th percentile for vehicle safety. The spillover effect is a new thing that likely will affect the design of the ramps for highways, but does not justify violating the 85th percentile.

If we are going to consider other effects, how about the effect that happens when the roads no longer have the capacity to carry traffic from enforcing lowered speed limits? That will result in bumper to bumper traffic during rush hour, with enormous amounts of particulates and NOx released from having so many vehicles idling. These kill people both on and off the roads. This is a problem in NY where the low speed limits philosophy has been in effect for decades. The electric future cannot come fast enough. Of course, electrification does not solve the additional problem of people dying fairly quickly because ambulances cannot reach hospitals in a timely manner due to bumper to bumper traffic.

It is really easy to take the position that high speeds are the problem, but that ignores the problems associated with lower speeds. That said, I owe you a thank you for the information about the AAA study. I had been unaware of that. Thank you for the information.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#786

Post by rightbyte »

Aurornis wrote: post #721
CalRobert wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's remarkable is that we already effectively banned kids from playing outside and drivers still kill many of the few that still try.

As a parent, these comments are always so weird to read. Kids play outside, including unsupervised still. Kids getting hit by drivers is statistically very rare (though no less tragic) Suggesting that “many” of the kids who “try” to play outside get killed by cars is the kind of conclusion you can only arrive at by living life through hyperbolic headlines or the dramatic evening news.

I think it is implied that they are not allowed to by their parents and thus not killed?

There is no way 1.5 to 4yo can play unsupervised, as in grabbing distance from adults, in areas close to traffic? Maybe 4yo can do with yelling distance from adults.

Like, if people wouldn't care so much as they do, I would guess there would be a lot of fatalities.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#788

Post by shpongled »

cutemonster wrote: post #411
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to make a fair comparison, then one-sided car accidents should be removed too.

No, they're not intentional, they're accidents. And can be reduced by traffic laws and speed limits. Suicides (that is, guns) are intentional.

Most car "accidents" are intentional - drivers are choosing to speed (35%), drive intoxicated (30%), or scroll tiktok (15%) rather than pay attention to the road.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#789

Post by rightbyte »

CalRobert wrote: post #730
Aurornis wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent, these comments are always so weird to read. Kids play outside, including unsupervised still. Kids getting hit by drivers is statistically very rare (though no less tragic) Suggesting that “many” of the kids who “try” to play outside get killed by cars is the kind of conclusion you can only arrive at by living life through hyperbolic headlines or the dramatic evening news.

Having a toddler who’s a runner radicalised me. Every walk outside required a death grip.

It is like the road has some sort of lure for them.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#790

Post by dvngnt_ »

ErigmolCt wrote: post #383
GuB-42 wrote: post #205

There are cars that can go way over 100 mph, and they almost all speed controlled by software. High performance cars are often speed limited by software to about 150 mph. How is this legal? Cars with speed limits that high belong to the track, not public roads, with a possible exception for emergency vehicles. There are some rare (emergency) situations where "superspeeding" might help, but I can think of many others…

The tricky part is definitely enforcement - as you said, if people can mod around it, it risks becoming another "only the responsible people obey" situation

Would assume the penalty would be the same as bypassing the court-ordered breathalyzer and getting caught.
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