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America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

molsonhart.com

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Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#781

Post by habinero »

palmotea wrote: post #681
NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #581

We never stopped manufacturing, we just stopped employing people. > We don’t have the infrastructure to manufacture That's trivially false given we're the second-largest manufacturer in the world. We just don't want to employ people, hence why we can't make an iphone or refine raw materials. The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. The idea of employing Americans is anti-bus…

> The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. The idea of employing Americans is anti-business—there's no willingness to invest, or to train, or to support an employee seen as waste. Until business can find some sort of reason to care about the state of the country, this will continue. I think you're exactly right there. >> We don’t have the infrastructure to manufacture > That…

No, we're a very close second in terms of output, almost on par. [0]

The difference is China has something like 10x the number of workers in manufacturing and can efficiently take on smaller or custom work.

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[0] https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scor...

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#782

Post by anon84873628 »

Suppafly wrote: post #696
NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #581

We never stopped manufacturing, we just stopped employing people. > We don’t have the infrastructure to manufacture That's trivially false given we're the second-largest manufacturer in the world. We just don't want to employ people, hence why we can't make an iphone or refine raw materials. The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. The idea of employing Americans is anti-bus…

>That's trivially false given we're the second-largest manufacturer in the world. Sure, but we don't manufacture the things that are typically made in 3rd world countries and the lead time to build that infrastructure is years, and generally would result in us moving down the tech tree ladder from being a consumer economy to a manufacturing economy with all of the negatives associated with that.

And is that quoted fact in absolute terms or per capita / as percent of GDP? That makes a big difference as to how we should interpret it.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#783

Post by habinero »

Manuel_D wrote: post #733
skywhopper wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re basing your understanding of the subject based on one anti-DEI activist’s misinterpretation of policies he doesn’t actually know anything about, who didn’t talk to anyone at those schools (even critics of the policy), and who very likely misread statistics and intentionally misrepresented processes, then you are not getting a fair picture. This piece you linked to is a mess of unsubstantiated statements. Se…

> However, other University of California schools have published this information. In one recent search at UC Berkeley employing substantially similar evaluation techniques to those that UC Davis used, there were 893 qualified applicants who submitted complete applications that met the basic job requirements. Of those applicants, 679 were eliminated solely because their diversity statements were deemed inadequate. Do…

There's no facts to refute - he just states that this conclusion is true without evidence of how he knows that or what the criteria he's using is.

That's the problem with all the DEI hysterics - it's never given any intellectual rigor. Instead, it's all profoundly mid men telling each other ghost stories.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#785

Post by Yeul »

aredox wrote: post #561
like_any_other wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other than that it seems to be mostly good points, especially the overall one: you cannot do this overnight. It's annoying Americans were given only two choices - offshoring is great and let's keep doing it, and, as you say, the opposite, meth-fueled let's bring back manufacturing overnight. The kind of slow and steady protection and promotion of home-grown industry that China and most of Asia so successfully used…

>It's annoying Americans were given only two choices - offshoring is great and let's keep doing it, and, as you say, the opposite, meth-fueled let's bring back manufacturing overnight. Excuse me, but I am old enough to remember Biden's program such as CHIPS, a slow and steady protection and promotion of home-grown industry. America had the choice. It chose wrong. Are Americans going to assume the consequences of thei…

I don't think the Rust belt really gives a shit about high tech industry making chips.

I have seen this in my own country when mega corps build highly automated data centres that only employ a few local cleaners and security guards.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#786

Post by mystified5016 »

I work for a US startup manufacturing (as much as is feasible) in the US.

Because of the embarrassment that is meant to be our government, DoE hasn't paid for a contract completed in December (including physical goods), and DoD has silently stopped all of the R&D contracts we've been applying for.

We're about a week or three away from bankruptcy.

Our only foreign vendors are for PCBs and a particular type of motor. US PCB fabs are and have always been vastly more expensive and really don't do small scale runs at any sort of reasonable price. The motors? No one makes them domestically.

I'd gripe more, but this administration simply doesn't care about little guys like us. US small business are going to start dropping like flies soon.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#787

Post by habinero »

yorwba wrote: post #598
skywhopper wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re basing your understanding of the subject based on one anti-DEI activist’s misinterpretation of policies he doesn’t actually know anything about, who didn’t talk to anyone at those schools (even critics of the policy), and who very likely misread statistics and intentionally misrepresented processes, then you are not getting a fair picture. This piece you linked to is a mess of unsubstantiated statements. Se…

Of course one should not use an opinion piece as the source when that opinion piece is just commenting on information found elsewhere, but also, in this day and age there's no reason to give up when you encounter a broken link: https://web.archive.org/web/20200202194620/https://ofew.berk... A total of 993 applications were received, of which 893 met basic qualifications. The LSI Committee conducted a first review and…

Ok, so what exactly is the "high standard" here, and what about the standard do you find it objectionable? The fact that something exists doesn't count.

If you don't know, you're just spreading urban legends and ghost stories.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#788

Post by mystified5016 »

NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #581

We never stopped manufacturing, we just stopped employing people. > We don’t have the infrastructure to manufacture That's trivially false given we're the second-largest manufacturer in the world. We just don't want to employ people, hence why we can't make an iphone or refine raw materials. The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. The idea of employing Americans is anti-bus…

I think it's worth specifying even further: wealthy business owners don't want to pay what a US employee costs.

Most jobs are wholly unsustainable. You have to job hop every couple of years to keep up with inflation because God knows you're not getting a raise that keeps you comfortable.

This has led to churn and brain drain and the slow collapse of US domestic business.

It's not that people don't want to work, it's that wages have fallen so far behind the cost of living that it's financial suicide to stay in any one job. Even with all the traps like employer sponsored healthcare, most people just can't afford to be paid the pittance most businesses are willing to pay.

This is a deep societal illness in the US. We've glorified and deified the concept of greed to the point where even talking about income inequality and the unimaginable concentration of wealth is just anathema. It's seeped into the everyday consciousness in the form of "I'm the only one that matters, fuck absolutely everyone else"

I genuinely believe that America will never, ever recover until we address this. We will always be this sick and broken country until the state entirely collapses or we get our shit together and address income inequality.

I have some real serious doubts that we'll ever get there, but it's easy to be pessimistic.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#789

Post by habinero »

zmgsabst wrote: post #533
skywhopper wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve been conned if you think overactive DEI was anything more than a minor annoyance in 99% of American universities. Did some people overdo it in a destructive way? Of course. But it wasn’t anything that was going to lead to major problems. The problems come from the folks who can’t just roll their eyes and move on but instead feel personally attacked and hold a permanent grudge instead of realizing that they the…

Harvard and UNC lost lawsuits about their DEI programs in admissions being illegal racism.

That doesn't counteract the point being made.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#790

Post by yorwba »

habinero wrote: post #787
yorwba wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course one should not use an opinion piece as the source when that opinion piece is just commenting on information found elsewhere, but also, in this day and age there's no reason to give up when you encounter a broken link: https://web.archive.org/web/20200202194620/https://ofew.berk... A total of 993 applications were received, of which 893 met basic qualifications. The LSI Committee conducted a first review and…

Ok, so what exactly is the "high standard" here, and what about the standard do you find it objectionable? The fact that something exists doesn't count. If you don't know, you're just spreading urban legends and ghost stories.

The text in italics is a verbatim quote from the archived PDF I linked, wherein UC Berkeley describes their hiring process. I encourage you to read it if you want to know further details.
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