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Google is winning on every AI front

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#781

Post by joenot443 »

sandspar wrote: post #674
joenot443 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I don't really think there's a team at Google, nor at OpenAI, paying for "astroturfing" on sites like HN. What are the rough steps through which you see this working? I see people talking about "astroturfing" all the time without much explanation on the mechanisms. So roughly, there are employees paid solely to post on social media like HN trying to push the needle in one direction or another?

There doesn't need to be a team. Individuals can act according to personal incentives and still create coordinated behavior. Look at flocks of birds. Each bird acts for itself; together they move in unison.

Right, but isn't that just fans being fans?

Usually when I read "astroturfed" I assume there's some higher level coordination involved. I think the flock of birds metaphor is probably a reasonable comparison to the behavior we see on social media all the time - members acting individually on their own self interests in a means which appears coordinated when you zoom out.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#782

Post by pb7 »

Const-me wrote: post #730
squigz wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think OpenAI is more trustworthy than Google?

I agree with GP. The reason is simple, business model. Google’s main source of income, by far, is selling ads. Not just any ads but highly targeted ones, which means global digital surveillance is an essential part of their business model.

OpenAI doesn't have a business model. They sell dollars for 75 cents. If push comes to shove, they will sell your data to make ends meet. What about OpenAI screams stability and trust? Is it all their leadership leaving after countless cases of drama? Is it a CEO that oozes snake oil?

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#783

Post by pb7 »

squigz wrote: post #493
gessha wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it’s less about trustworthiness and more about what they can do with the information. Google can potentially locate, profile and influence everyone around me and I don’t want that type of power however benevolent they are. What can OpenAI do? They can sell my data, whatever, it’s a whole bunch of prompts of me asking for function and API syntax.

Do you think Google doesn't sell that data, or that other companies don't collect and resell it? In either case, I'm sure that's how it starts. "This company has very little power and influence; what damage can they do?" Until, oh so suddenly, they're tracking and profiling you and selling that data.

Google doesn't sell data.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#784

Post by bmcahren »

jsemrau wrote: post #167
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is also terribly paranoid of the LLM saying anything controversial. If you want a summary of some hot topic article you might not have the time to read, Gemini will straight up refuse to answer. ChatGPT and Grok don't mind at all.

>Google is also terribly paranoid of the LLM saying anything controversial. When did this start? Serious question. Of all the model providers my experience with Google's LLMs and Chatproducts were the worst in that dimension. Black Nazis, Eating stones, pizza with glue, etc I suppose we've all been there.

From day one. We would have had LLMs years before if Google wasn't holding back. They knew the risk - google search would be dead as soon as the internet were flooded with AI content that google could not distinguish from real content.

Then you could look at how the first "public preview" models they released were so neutered by their own inhibitions they were useless (to me). Things like over-active refusals in response to "killing child processes".

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#786

Post by nailer »

csmpltn wrote: post #261

Google is winning because LLMs without a (good) search backend are mostly useless. So many LLM workloads require high quality search results (backed by efficient, relevant, complete and up-to-date indexes), and that’s Google’s muscle.

Copilot has been doing this, using Bing, for a year not and it’s been great.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#788

Post by theshackleford »

wkat4242 wrote: post #776
theshackleford wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, for the customers it's usually more expensive and slower than a normal taxi Neither of those things are true where I live. > at least here in Spain Well…Spain is Spain. Not the rest of the world.

No but it's like this in most of Europe. I think Uber in the US is a very different beast. But also because the outlook on life is so different there. I recently agreed with an American visitor that we'd go somewhere and we agreed to go by public transport. When I got there he wanted to get an Uber :') Here in Europe public transport is a very different thing. In many cases the metro is even faster than getting a tax…

> Anyway I have very few good experiences with these services

For me, and a majority where I live, this is applicable to taxis. Which were known for being dirty, late, expensive, prone to attempting to rip you off, if they turned up at all, etc.

Outside of surge charging (in which they are more expensive) ubers are by and large either cheaper, or the same price. With the difference being that 99% of the time if you request one, its going to turn up. And when it does turn up, you know what your going to pay, not have them take a wrong turn at some point and by "mistake" and decide to charge you double. Or tell you they take card and then start making claims about how suddenly they can't etc.

Sounds like europe gets the bad end of the stick in this regard.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#789

Post by khimaros »

joshdavham wrote: post #543
levocardia wrote: post #51

Google is winning on every front except... marketing (Google has a chatbot?), trust (who knew the founding fathers were so diverse?), safety (where's the 2.5 Pro model card?), market share (fully one in ten internet users on the planet are weekly ChatGPT users), and, well, vibes (who's rooting for big G, exactly?). But I will admit, Gemini Pro 2.5 is a legit good model. So, hats off for that.

My hesitancy to adopt Gemini, despite being a heavy GCP and workspace user, is I kinda lost trust when trying to use their earlier models (I don't even remember those models' names). I just remember the models were just so consistently bad and obviously hallucinated more than 50% of the time. Maybe Gemini is finally better, but I'm not exactly excited to give it a try.

it is a completely different product these days

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#790

Post by karunamurti »

levocardia wrote: post #51

Google is winning on every front except... marketing (Google has a chatbot?), trust (who knew the founding fathers were so diverse?), safety (where's the 2.5 Pro model card?), market share (fully one in ten internet users on the planet are weekly ChatGPT users), and, well, vibes (who's rooting for big G, exactly?). But I will admit, Gemini Pro 2.5 is a legit good model. So, hats off for that.

Also not OSS. That's not a win for me.
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