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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#781

Post by Kim_Bruning »

rayiner wrote: post #761
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, ok, it's a red line for you. Good that you make that explicit, but you are being a thrifty with information there. This site is for curious conversation, so I'd love to see you elucidate a bit further! What's the nature of the red line? For instance, Are you worried they'd get hurt? Are you worried about political implications? Or, does the fact that there are already American volunteers to fighting in Ukraine ch…

I don’t want the U.S. to bear the cost (in money and lives) of a war that doesn’t directly relate to protecting the american homeland. I think U.S. foreign policy has been a failure since the 1950s—we shouldn’t have gone to war in Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Iraq, etc. The only justifiable war in that time, in my opinion, was Afghanistan, where the Taliban harbored terrorists that had attacked the U.S. I think the premis…

You know, fair enough, boy who cries wolf, and then when they go "but this time it's an actual wolf!"; no one listens.

I can sort of get that. I mean it sucks, I think it's wrong this time, mostly because for me it's a bit closer to home and debatably existential; but at least I get where you're coming from.

Some people are worried that this means that Americans also oppose NATO in general and article 5 in particular. Is that the case, or is that like a known pre-existing alliance and a known quantity?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#782

Post by arandomusername »

ponector wrote: post #774
arandomusername wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country? Logistics (Ukraine shares a large border with Russia) and people - the people in currently occupied Ukraine aren't as against Russia as those in Afghanistan may be. Even now, we don't really see much of sabotage. > All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave. And how are you…

> Russia has more men This is true in general. But not true for soldiers. They have more so many men willing to fight in Ukraine. If they have so many men - why the are Korean soldiers fighting for Russia? Or Africans? You simply echo Russia Today narratives.

and maybe you echo reddit too much, or some biased Ukrainian news site. It is no secret that Russia has more fighting men. It's just logical, since they have a significantly higher population.

Ukraine has so many men willing to fight that they have to kidnap them on the streets?

There's Korean soldiers fighting in Kursk only, as far as I'm aware. None in Ukraine. It's free man power for Russia. Both sides have merceneries from Africa and South America, among others.

https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2025/0...

> Staffed and decently equipped: Russia’s outlook for 2025

vs

> Equipped but not staffed: Ukraine’s challenge for 2025

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#783

Post by arandomusername »

Aeolun wrote: post #770
arandomusername wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country? Logistics (Ukraine shares a large border with Russia) and people - the people in currently occupied Ukraine aren't as against Russia as those in Afghanistan may be. Even now, we don't really see much of sabotage. > All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave. And how are you…

Collective defense was always an option. It's not like anyone has the appetite for that, but it's not hard as such to kick Russia out of Ukraine.

Nope. Majority of Europeans and Americans do not want to go and fight for Ukraine. Especially when there's a thread of nuclear war.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#784

Post by arandomusername »

ponector wrote: post #778
Aeolun wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective defense was always an option. It's not like anyone has the appetite for that, but it's not hard as such to kick Russia out of Ukraine.

It's not that hard and even no troops required. Send more weapons without restrictions to use them against Russians, tight real sanctions and they will be defeated

that's how you get nukes in Cuba

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#785

Post by codedokode »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #674
jsnider3 wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making Ukraine part of NATO is just something Putin made up, not an actual thing.

I recommend reading some of the diplomatic cables on Wikileaks https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW3127_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08KYIV1144_a.html The Ukrainian president who was anti-NATO is the one that the Euromaidan deposed. https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-scraps-nato-accession-plans/a-... Here's France24's take in 2014 when Ukraine voted to abandon "non-aligned" status: https://www.france24…

To add to your collection of links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2021_Russian_ultimatu...

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#786

Post by ponector »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #278
bradhe wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

US spends trillion in vietname,iraq,afghan etc while people can't afford housing,healthcare and living paycheck to paycheck its hard to care for other people when your basic needs is not fullfill

Do you know that military aid to Ukraine is mostly an old crap which is quite expensive to get rid of in a peaceful way?

Instead they send it to Ukraine on inflated price and all money goes to the US manufactures to make a modern weapons instead.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#787

Post by Aeolun »

jltsiren wrote: post #44
arunabha wrote: post #19

It would be one thing if there was a clear policy and adherence to it. In that case, you could discuss and reason in good faith. However there is no such indication that this decision is based on a considered policy. Trump's supporters would say that this is a result of not wanting the US being involved in foreign conflicts. That is a laudable goal, however that is not what is happening here. From the article > On Fr…

It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working to restore relations with Russia. There is only one word for that: evil. Back in the late 90s to late 2000s, people in Western Europe generally had pretty negative views of the US. It was the country that refused to fight against climate change, launched an i…

If this were the 70s, Trump would have been arrested as a soviet spy...

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#788

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mrguyorama wrote: post #759
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the Chinese have been sitting still for the last 10 years, and I doubt they will sit still for the next 10 years.

China invested heavily into hypersonic delivery vehicles instead of scale. They didn't want nuclear winter, they want to make sure that ANY attempt by the US to project power in "Their" waters evaporates in a plasma ball. They don't seem interested in nuking the US mainland. Instead, their focus has been on building invasion barges so that they can take Taiwan. So that's exciting. Hope none of you like computer chips…

They were able to nuke the west coast in the 90s. I don't think they have been sitting still with their ICBMs, the same ones that get your taikounauts into the space are the ones you use to deliver nukes.

Regardless, they only need enough to make nuclear war with them MAD, which I think they've had for a decade or so.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#789

Post by codedokode »

ponector wrote: post #774
arandomusername wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country? Logistics (Ukraine shares a large border with Russia) and people - the people in currently occupied Ukraine aren't as against Russia as those in Afghanistan may be. Even now, we don't really see much of sabotage. > All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave. And how are you…

> Russia has more men This is true in general. But not true for soldiers. They have more so many men willing to fight in Ukraine. If they have so many men - why the are Korean soldiers fighting for Russia? Or Africans? You simply echo Russia Today narratives.

> why the are Korean soldiers fighting for Russia

Isn't it better for Russia if Koreans die instead of Russians? It looks rational (but sad for Koreans dying in a war on the other side of the globe).

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#790

Post by ponector »

jesterson wrote: post #232
schroeding wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If France had hold out until 1943, with the Wehrmacht only making a few hundred yards progress per day, it would have been a massive success, don't you agree? Without western help, Ukraine would have had no chance in hell to survive that long. It's the same logic the US applied to lend-lease, didn't they? There was a good chance of the USSR collapsing until 1943, and you still helped them. Delaying an invading attack…

> when Russia attacks the Baltics in a few years I wonder what media do you consume to get this absolutely ridiculous idea? baltic states have no beef with Russia (except petty provocations which Russia seem to dismiss), Putin never ever said he will do anything like that and actively emphasised he won't. Where the idea of Russia attacking Baltic states or any other european nation to that matter, have stemmed from (…

Russians have been saying the same about attacking Ukraine all the way until they actually did attack.

There are many signs Baltic states are next in the Russian annexation list. And if Russia going to win control over Ukraine - mobilized to Russian army Ukrainians will be in the first wave of Russian cannon fodder troops advancing through Baltic states.

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