I note LibreWolf is built from FF sources. Zen also. Are they specifically removing the telemetry stuff Moz are going to use to collect user data?
They just use Gecko, right? Is telemetry actually built into the rendering engine
Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
781–790 of 1001 posts
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#782Like they say, die early or live long enough to become a villain. I never thought I would live to see the day when Mozilla's ethics would shift away so much from the "ethical" alignment. Does anyone have any idea of what has changed inside Mozilla to prompt this?
Maybe business necessity finally caught up with them
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#783Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> is easy to block network access (never plug ethernet) Some TVs secretly include a modem and SIM card, to make sure they get your personal data back to their masters. Every company in the world is coming after your privacy. How far are you willing to defend it?
>Some TVs secretly include a modem and SIM card
Which TVs? This is a major expense for a product with rapidly depreciating costs and intense competition, all to do something illegal/immoral?
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#784Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps the legal situation is different somewhere, but I would think the browser isn't acting at all. It has no agency; it's just software running on my computer, following instructions I give it. Mozilla has no agency in that situation either; the software is running on my computer, not theirs. The new terms grant Mozilla , the corporation a license to do things with my data.
The question isn't what you (who presumably understands technology) would think. The question is what every court in the world would think.
But the more important question then is: what else will the courts think this language allows? Probably Mozilla could argue they need to store those uploads and analyze them under those conditions.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#785I might have differed with Brendan Eich on a few matters, but he was a good steward of Firefox in my book. When Mitchell Baker took the reins, Mozilla became rather more heavy-handed towards us - the irony being that Waterfox was once proudly displayed on the Mozilla website under their "Powered By" banner. I appreciate the constant existential wobble Firefox faces, but they've made some peculiar decisions as of late…
> I should point out, it seems daft to me when others suggest using forks with no well-established governance of their own, essentially shifting trust from an organisation at least answerable to certain regulations, to individuals with no proper framework or guidelines
Individuals that care about these things have a far better track record than any business with employees, bills to pay, and investors.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#786Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kagi's Orion browser has a lifetime sponsor price of $150. That plus the Kagi subscription support its development. It's currently macOS and iPad/iPhone only, but a Linux version is being worked on. I don't know their plans for a Windows version.
What is a fair price? Developers are not cheap and you need to pay many of them every month (or get the equivalent in donated time). We can debate that number of course, so I'm going to start the discussion at $50/year. So your "lifetime sponser" is only worth 3 years (ignoring interest which isn't significant at this time scale). Accounting for lifetime anything is hard (I don't know how to do the math, I'm sure peo…
oh absolutely, I agree. I don't think $150 is adequate to fund development of a browser.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#787Earlier quoted context omitted.
That bit pretty much sounds like "by using the software you're agreeing to whatever"
No it doesn't. Most businesses finish that sentence with "...for any purpose" not "... to help you navigate the web" It will still be interpreted to mean "...for any purpose" by Mozilla somehow.
How does them selling my data help me navigate the web?
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#788Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "....to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox." We weren't born yesterday, and companies pull this shit all the time. This sentence is meaningless. You could use this sentence to justify literally any behaviour. One _easy_ way to read this change: > "... to help you interact with online content" Selling your data to have more relevant ads could easi…
No. We are talking about legality. Quote the whole bloody thing. If you don’t get to say “I picked out the bit I like” in court, then you don’t get to do it here. If you’re so right, then it’s not worth taking out in the first place.
Quoting the whole bloody thing is meaningless when the added bit adds nothing to the context. Nothing about the "added context" says they won't sell the data. If anything it just improves the case that they are going to sell the data.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#789Earlier quoted context omitted.
I tip some projects that help me. It's been years since mozilla started to do evolve in ways that feel weird. I'd tip for a fork. Question is: how many people would jump ship, and then how much money would that represent to pay devs.
https://buymeacoffee.com/waterfox please do tip a fork. Right now this money seems to go to one person, but if that person starts making significant money we can probably talk them into hiring others to work on the project.
do you know if he has a paypal link ?
also, slightly related, people should look into / take inspiration tor browser. they're really great at releasing regular updates with high quality and features, surely they know how to handle this kind of projects
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#790I might have differed with Brendan Eich on a few matters, but he was a good steward of Firefox in my book. When Mitchell Baker took the reins, Mozilla became rather more heavy-handed towards us - the irony being that Waterfox was once proudly displayed on the Mozilla website under their "Powered By" banner. I appreciate the constant existential wobble Firefox faces, but they've made some peculiar decisions as of late…
> I should point out, it seems daft to me when others suggest using forks with no well-established governance of their own, essentially shifting trust from an organisation at least answerable to certain regulations, to individuals with no proper framework or guidelines Individuals that care about these things have a far better track record than any business with employees, bills to pay, and investors.
Until that individual tires of the work, and then stops working on it completely or sells it to someone with less scruples or the project gets hijacked by malicious actor.