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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's the spironolactone part that was concerning, but that the idea of the new gender identity came from someone else and lots of convincing was required. It reminds me of a friend I have who is quite severely depressed and has gone through a wide range of sexual identities. Straight, to asexual, then gay, then polyamorously bisexual, and now back to monogamously straight. Each change she excitedly expl…

So far as the "media barrage" my experience is that I got a lot more negative about the trans movement when I joined Mastodon a few years ago and got exposed to their own words. My trans friend in college suffered terribly because her mother disowned her. I can say as a parent though, if I saw my child was involved with people who were as hateful and negative as the trans people I see on Mastodon, I'd think "I'd do a…

I don’t assume that I can know anything about another person’s experience of the world. But from the outside, I agree that some communities seem full of deeply aggrieved and unhappy people who seem intent on dragging others into their miserable worldview.

But lots of non-gender-related online communities also look like that to me: some political groups, antiwork, etc.

I see some people, especially young people, treat depression as a kind of virtue. Like “the world is shit and if you aren’t miserable it’s because you just haven’t woken up to reality”. And then they find groups online to reinforce that, and the depression meme spreads. I would want to protect my kids from that too.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#782
post #144

Rationalism? The term has been used a lot of times since Pythagoras [0], but the combination of Bay Area, Oxford, existential risks, AI safety makes it sound like this particular movement could have formed in the same mold as Effective Altruism and Long-Termism (ie, the "it's objectively better for humanity if you give us money to buy a castle in France than whatever you'd do with it" crowd that SBF sprung from). Can…

[deleted]

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#784

The fact that you can make a cult of the Rationalist movement is truly a testament to the fact that some humans are able to turn anything into a cult If anything, the reading I have done (mostly SSC and LW) have made me less radical and much much more humble

Rationalism has a number of characteristics typical of cults.

1. Apocalyptic world view.

2. Charismatic and/or exploitative leader.

3. Insularity.

4. Esoteric jargon.

5. Lack of transparency or accountability (often about finances or governance).

6. Communal living arrangements.

7. Sexual mores outside social norms, especially around the leader.

8. Schismatic offshoots.

9. Outsized appeal and/or outreach to the socially vulnerable.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#785

Some bookmarks from early 2023 that seem relevant now: https://zizians.info https://old.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/ https://aiascendant.substack.com/p/extropias-children-chapte... I do not engage with any of those people nor their weird communities.

Sneer Club is one of the most nasty, uncharitable, and bad-faith subs out there these days. They generally hate HN, as well. I think any community which exists solely to make cheap shots at another community is poison at its core, SC’s parasocial relationship with LW is a perfect example.

N-gate was among the only things that made this website worth reading. They solely existed to make "cheap shots" at HN. If that's "poison", than I don't want an antidote!

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think astral codex ten did a survey recently and the majority of respondents were politically left

What kind of political leftist would you say resonates most acutely with Scott Alexander's January paean to the scientific racism of Emil Kirkegaard and Richard Lynn ("How To Stop Worrying And Learn To Love Lynn's National IQ Estimates")?

That is an inaccurate, reductionist comment. I encourage folks to read that post if they are interested.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#787

[Former member of that world, roommates with one of Ziz's friends for a while, so I feel reasonably qualified to speak on this.] The problem with rationalists/EA as a group has never been the rationality, but the people practicing it and the cultural norms they endorse as a community. As relevant here: 1) While following logical threads to their conclusions is a useful exercise, each logical step often involves some…

> (the guy makes Neil deGrasse Tyson look like a monk) So years after an investigation into the allegation of sexual misconduct ended empty handed, it's still ok to throw mud?

It's unsettlingly weird that you assume all mentions of NdT to be about the sexual misconduct allegations against him.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#788
post #605

[Former member of that world, roommates with one of Ziz's friends for a while, so I feel reasonably qualified to speak on this.] The problem with rationalists/EA as a group has never been the rationality, but the people practicing it and the cultural norms they endorse as a community. As relevant here: 1) While following logical threads to their conclusions is a useful exercise, each logical step often involves some…

I noticed years ago too that AI doomers and rationalist type were very prone to (infinity * 0 = infinity) types of traps, which is a fairly autistic way of thinking. Humanity long time ago decided that infinity * 0 = 0 for very good practical reasons.

i think you are putting too many people in one bucket

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reasoning implies the current President and his party are not conservative, which is an interesting conclusion.

Yes, that's correct. Why is that an interesting conclusion? Trump is a neo-nationalist (with or without the appended socialist, take your pick), not a conservative. It's notable that the only remaining resistance against Trump in the Republican Party (represented by, e.g. Nikki Haley) are a coalition of conservatives.

Nikki Haley strongly endorsed Trump at the RNC in 2024.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/nikki-haley-trump-rn...

So we can agree that there is no remaining resistance to Trump in the Republican Party and that conservatives are indeed Trumpers.

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