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Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

blog.dropbox.com

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Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#781
post #254
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bullshit package because of the healthcare. I was laid off from a different company with access to 18 months of COBRA. Dropbox is offering a third of that. Lots of job searches take longer than 6 months, so the employees are going to be left high and dry right when they need it the most. For the non-Americans, my COBRA expenses are about USD$2,000/month for me and my partner. I’m paying as much for healthca…

All West Coast states have free healthcare (medicaid) available if your income is below a certain threshold. And there is no time limit on that. It won’t help with rent, but at least these folks won’t be completely without healthcare access.

Even if one does qualify for those programs, the sign-up time is on the order of almost a year here in California. Applications are Supposed To Be™ reviewed within 45 days, which is already a long wait, but they are using the new normal “due to higher than usual volume, fuck you” approach just like every other modern bureaucracy.

https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/individuals/Pages/Steps-to-Medi-Cal.... sez “Due to the high volume of new applications, the process is taking longer than normal”, and I have secondhand experience of six+ month wait times.

Expenses incurred during the coverage gap need additional approval for retroactive repayment, meaning you have to have the funds to pay upfront for however many months/years the sign-up process takes, then once your coverage starts you have to apply/wait/hope to be paid back for everything paid out-of-pocket which might just get denied: https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/formsandpubs/forms/Forms/mc210a0907....

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#782
post #90

I'm always a bit confused by profitable companies with (presumably) large reserves laying off lots of people. I get that they want to remain profitable. But sure 500ish people could be put to some use? A new product, a new market, a spinoff. Whatever? Are you telling me that no one in such a big, wealthy company of clever engineers has any use for a bunch of talented people?

I had a product manager at Salesforce tell me he went around trying to build support for a new reporting product. He was eventually taken aside by some coworker and told they don't build new products at Salesforce, and bought companies instead. And they did indeed later buy multiple companies, including Tableau, in that space.

Which can make business sense if you take into account both the probability of the project failing to deliver a competitive product (always high no matter how slick the pitch deck is) and the probability that it gets no traction in the marketplace even if it is as good as the competition. Buying an existing successful product and its customer base can be much lower risk even if it is the more expensive route.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#783
post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, that sounds like a personal shortcoming to me. One can (and should) not take interviews personally. One also can (and should) be able to acquit oneself well at an interview even without prep time.

You're telling me you maintain the ability to pass the various interviews that the modern FAANG SWE gauntlet requires year-round? Good for you if so, but this doesn't match the experience of any of the folks that I've worked with across my career.

Who said anything about FAANG? I don't work in that world and in fact you literally could not pay me to do so. It seems miserable as hell. But Dropbox isn't in that world either. And in any case, I've never ever had to prepare for a job interview at all, let alone for multiple months. They aren't that hard in most cases.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#784

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> The market for talent is competitive. A couple months ago interviewing.io posted something bragging about how "we do anonymous mock interviews. If people perform well in those interviews, they get introduced directly to a decision-maker at top-tier companies, regardless of how they look on paper." ( https://interviewing.io/blog/i-love-meritocracy-but-all-the-... ) This annoyed me enough that I sent in an email comp…

Founder of interviewing.io here.

Clarification: Just because companies don't want a 3rd party like us providing them with junior candidates, it doesn't mean they don't want them. Even back in 2017-2019, when the market was booming, we couldn't get employers to take our juniors... because they generally have their own robust pipeline.

So the solution is to go to companies directly, rather than relying on a 3rd party service like ours, which companies tend to use specifically for roles they can't fill on their own.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, that sounds like a personal shortcoming to me. One can (and should) not take interviews personally. One also can (and should) be able to acquit oneself well at an interview even without prep time.

> One also can (and should) be able to acquit oneself well at an interview even without prep time. I don't agree. If you don't prepare at all for an interview, it shows. Aside from leetcode, it's also important to research the company. My point is mainly that I might be upset if I were in that group that's laid off today. I don't want to prep leetcode for several weeks. It feels like a waste of time.

I've never prepared for an interview in my life, and I've never had any difficulty. Anecdotal of course, but I think prep for interviews is vastly overrated.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#786
post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the CEO resigning or getting laid off, make your situation any better if you were one of those laid off? Feels like a weird hill to die on, and more like a crabs in the bucket mentality that doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. In the end I'm still unemployed and whatever happens to my ex-CEO doesn't change my situation one bit. As I grew older and experienced my share of layoffs, I stopped ca…

> Would the CEO resigning or getting laid off, make your situation any better if you were one of those laid off? No, of course not. But he is the leader, and he guided the company to a point where certain areas became "over-invested or under-performing." In other words, he didn’t do a good job. So, it should be him stepping down. Nobody ever said being a CEO would be easy.

>and he guided the company to a point where certain areas became "over-invested or under-performing."

And now he's fixing it by cutting those under-performing areas.

>So, it should be him stepping down.

Why? How would that help the company get better? Do you think competent CEOs are like cogs that you can pick a new one from the stack of LinkedIn applications whenever the old one makes a mistake, and then slot him in the existing machine and everything will magically work better?

>Nobody ever said being a CEO would be easy.

Exactly. That's why you don't rush to replace the devil you know with the devil you don't.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#787
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say "I take responsibility" and then.. don't take any responsibility. It's insult on injury. How big of a bonus will this CEO get this year? Last year?

Why do people understand this phrase "taking responsibility" as some kind of admitting of fault? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems neutral and could even be referring to positive future outcomes for the company.

Because that's what it means to take responsibility. You're saying "I did this, and to the extent that it's a bad thing you can blame me".

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#788

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

I disagree with your conclusion, you have several flawed premises.

The market has been slowly shrinking into fewer and fewer hands over time, which is why it has become more competitive over time. This has also led to cooperative behavior among the large marketshare companies in the sectors to disadvantage competitors, and employees.

Companies do not bid up to the max they can, because the executives take their cut first. The companies bids can only ever be the max of what is left after that, and varies by the greed of those people.

Interest rates would be the shock you described, but Tech unemployment as far as I can tell has until now been bulletproof, and uncorrelated with interest rate rises or falls. Its not rational to assume this market shock is a result of interest rates, AI is the only competitive alternative.

The issue is not that you're getting fired. Its that you can no longer get base goods needed for survival arbitrarily and without notice, and without capital reserves which are finite you are living on the street.

When the entire market as an entirety is contracting, there are no new jobs to move to in other fields.

Worse, the concentrated market is naturally incentivized to impose high costs on any job seekers to interfere in labor relations to create barriers to entry for competitors while suppressing wages for prospective workers.

This natural progression occurs when anti-trust fails, and money printing makes it worse potentially leading to either deflation (a collapse to non-market socialism) or hyper-inflation (a collapse to non-market socialism). Debt issued as preferential loans from a money-printer makes a company state-dependent/controlled apparatus even if its claim is that it is held privately.

The economy today is worse than 2008, much worse then the dotcom bust, and if you plot the trend with good data going back and starting around the 1970s, the trend shows progressive ruin as time passes, with seiving and consolidation occurring regularly. That is the force driving this problem, and it doesn't enable tech salaries.

> There should also be some reasonable government provided safety net so people can reskill/learn.

There is a limit to what government can provide, it takes awhile to get to those limits (we're in a super-cycle going back to the 1920s) but we'll be there in the next 5-10 years thanks in large part to deficit spending and the FED picking winners and losers.

The main issues with academia also applies to government. They are structurally the same. Education today is not about learning skills, that is always secondary to instilling the qualities a loyal unthinking worker. That is what the entire prussian-model of schooling is about (which is what we have in this country).

These structures for training follow the same structure as guild socialism, and the same intractable failures (ref Mises for related details).

It inevitably ends up being a cult of qualification, where you are automatically considered unqualified without a piece of paper even if you have the actual skills to do the job. Once a target market size is identified and reached, new candidates are put on an endless escalator of suffering with arbitrary filters/requirements where the claimed outcome is nothing but an unobtainable pipe dream.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#789
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But sure 500ish people could be put to some use? A new product, a new market, a spinoff. Whatever? Are you telling me that no one in such a big, wealthy company of clever engineers has any use for a bunch of talented people? I think a lot of the low hanging fruit in tech has been eaten up, bought up and consolidated, or actually was recognized as much more difficult and expensive than they actually thought. The lea…

I agree with both comments. ~500 can surely build some amazing tech, smaller teams have done more. I personally do think there's still a lot of relatively low-hanging fruit left, especially with the boom of possibilities due to AI, or simply what one can do with modern CPU/GPU performance, new browser APIs, modern tech factors, etc. I also do agree and think leadership talent and vision in a lot tech companies is pai…

Not everyone is the type of person that can build a new product from scratch…, I bet the majority of the 500 aren’t that type

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#790
post #660
post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said reasonable, not "endlessly-patched-up nonsense that conservatives want to gut at every turn"

I feel like "Medicaid could be better" is a statement everyone can agree on, but my point stands that the meme that US healthcare is some Mad Max apocalyptic wasteland where you're completely on your own and left to die in the street is categorically false. Not a single person in the US is denied healthcare based on inability to pay.

> Not a single person in the US is denied healthcare based on inability to pay.

This is not true. Emergency rooms are required to take you in and stabilize your situation even if you can't pay. Everything else is not available if you can't pay.

Think of something like cancer, which an emergency room can't treat since it develops over time. You will indeed be left to die on the streets if you don't have the money or coverage from somewhere.

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