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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#781

Post by cmrdporcupine »

safety1st wrote: post #779
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have more sympathy for this position, and my political biases are strongly left wing, but having spent time in Cuba on and off for the last 20 years... time has shown just how incompetent and malevolent the Cuban regime is. It would suck badly there without the sanctions, too. Though I think the sanctions give the regime an excuse. Obama was right to start to lift restrictions... a decade of continued stagn…

Would it have really? I'm not particularly up to speed on the situation in Cuba, but there are a lot of awful regimes on this planet that remain in power simply because they have all the guns. These regimes are unpopular, they govern poorly, but no one can do anything about it, because the guns, tanks and soldiers are all under their control, and they've decided that a peaceful transition of power is not an option th…

The Cuban regime has been able to produce an aura of legitimacy around itself through its history of resistance to US imperialism, or that's how it's framed, whether you take that at face value or how you interpret it is up to you.

If the brutal ugly side of US imperialism (in the form of military aggression or intense actually-illegal unitary sanctions etc) goes away, so does the legitimacy. People will be asking "why" they can't buy basic consumer goods, and the answer will not be believable in the slightest.

Cuba is not North Korea. It's not isolated in that way. Nor does it have a Juche style cult of self-reliance. It is heavily dependent on tourism for its economy. Even its official communist ideology emphasizes internationalist linkages and outlook.

The sanctions are counterproductive and unjust.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#782

Post by mharig »

twixfel wrote: post #702
wwtrv wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

I am a British immigrant in Germany and I can vouch for how impossible it is to integrate into these northern European societies, if the rest are anything like Germany. I tick all the boxes of what German boomers would want in a "Good Immigrant" (white, educated, from western Europe, speaks German, good job), but it doesn't help. I think overall Germans, deep down, don't really want us here. We are here to pay for th…

Continental Europeans have very bad experiences with British tourists. I really like Brits, but just if they stay on their Islands. And I am quite sure I get support from around a 100 Million dead guys from India.

Turks are a very big community (I guess more than 20 Million counting all generations) in Germany with a lot of not well adapted folk.

In my 2500 souls german home village live people from more than 40 nations. I never heard negative comments about them from one of the natives. But the shithole you live in of course may vary.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#783

Post by sandworm101 »

safety1st wrote: post #779
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have more sympathy for this position, and my political biases are strongly left wing, but having spent time in Cuba on and off for the last 20 years... time has shown just how incompetent and malevolent the Cuban regime is. It would suck badly there without the sanctions, too. Though I think the sanctions give the regime an excuse. Obama was right to start to lift restrictions... a decade of continued stagn…

Would it have really? I'm not particularly up to speed on the situation in Cuba, but there are a lot of awful regimes on this planet that remain in power simply because they have all the guns. These regimes are unpopular, they govern poorly, but no one can do anything about it, because the guns, tanks and soldiers are all under their control, and they've decided that a peaceful transition of power is not an option th…

>> a stable state that lasts for a lifetime.

This particular stable state has lasted more than a lifetime. The average age in Cuba is 40, which while higher than many countries still means that the average Cuban has no living memory of any of the events that lead to the sanctions, much less could they have participated in them.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#784

Post by cmrdporcupine »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #2

Looks like the main reason is - Cuba's two main benefactors stopped supplying fuel on the cheap, as they have their hands full with their own crises.

Cuba was hit extremely hard by the COVID crisis, is my understanding.

Not just internal policies and procedures, but consider that tourism is Cuba's #1 industry. And not many of us Canadians, etc. were heading down there spring 2020, winter 2021 or even winter 2022...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#785

Post by ossobuco »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #6

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicara…

> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions

Open the doors to US investors to exploit every single resource Cuba has to offer.

Kicking out Batista the dictator and closing those doors was the reason sanctions were applied in the first place.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#786

Post by ossobuco »

zdragnar wrote: post #40
vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

I think that's really underselling the political persecution that many have suffered in Cuba. It's far and away from just wanting reparations for land grabs. We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela now- we don't want to fund what their government is doing, and allying with them gives us little to nothing in return. That said, it's pretty obvious that economic sanctions…

> we don't want to fund what their government is doing

What is their government doing that is so terrible?

Anyway let's suppose Cuba is a brutal dictatorship, even though it really isn't by any metric. Why are there no sanctions on Saudi Arabia? Why no sanctions on Taiwan during the white terror? Why no sanctions on Chile when they threw alive protesters from flying helicopters? I could go on for a while.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#787

Post by brigadier132 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #781
safety1st wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it have really? I'm not particularly up to speed on the situation in Cuba, but there are a lot of awful regimes on this planet that remain in power simply because they have all the guns. These regimes are unpopular, they govern poorly, but no one can do anything about it, because the guns, tanks and soldiers are all under their control, and they've decided that a peaceful transition of power is not an option th…

The Cuban regime has been able to produce an aura of legitimacy around itself through its history of resistance to US imperialism, or that's how it's framed, whether you take that at face value or how you interpret it is up to you. If the brutal ugly side of US imperialism (in the form of military aggression or intense actually-illegal unitary sanctions etc) goes away, so does the legitimacy. People will be asking "w…

The only people who find the Cuban regime legitimate would find an excuse to promote its legitimacy with or without sanctions. Trade would benefit the government of Cuba as it did with China and helping nations with totalitarian dictatorships is a failed strategy.

As the communists like to say "The capitalists will sell us our pitchforks".

No, we don't have to.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#788

Post by mahkeiro »

nradov wrote: post #150
toast0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cuba would be a great travel destination. It's been a while since I visited places outside the US, but one of the shocking things was travel ads for Cuba everywhere. From what I can tell, US-Cuban relations seem to be at the whim of the US President. Most of the US population doesn't care; most of the rest of the world has fine relations with Cuba, but isn't going to pressure the US. Nobody is sending missiles to C…

It's not just the President. Some aspects of US-Cuban relations are written into federal law and would take an Act of Congress to change. As a practical matter, Americans can travel to Cuba without much trouble. Several of my friends have gone.

American yes but not if you are from another country and need to go the US…

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#789

Post by 0dayz »

labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

That's because you guys vet them like crazy before allowing them in a lot of European countries don't.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#790

Post by gregors »

zozbot234 wrote: post #244
pton_xd wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. Explain how unskilled illegal immigrants contribute to our success. I'm open minded but I've yet to hear anything convincing. No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

> No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers. Is this why I keep reading "THEY TUKK ER JERBS!!!!!!" as a knock-down argument against H1-B and other legal visas here on HN?

As an immigrant who works in tech, I think the H1-B issue in particular is a bit more nuanced. I think the feeling is that H1-B's are used inappropriately as a tool to leverage salaries lower. I don't actually know the stats on that.

That being said, you do want immigrants working right? That's kinda the entire point.

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