Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

781–790 of 1001 posts

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#781

Post by sb057 »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

FWIW a recent YouGov poll[1] found that 20% of 18-29 year-olds agree with the statement that "the Holocaust is a myth," with an additional 30% neither agreeing or disagreeing. Compare this to 0%(!) of 65+ year-olds agreeing, and a mere 2% neither agreeing or disagreeing.

To put another way, the oldest generations are in 98% agreement that the Holocaust happened, compared to 50% of young adults.

[1] https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabRepor...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#782

Post by alephnerd »

sudosysgen wrote: post #469
jhallenworld wrote: post #455

I've been watching Project Ask recently: https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos It's fascinating to hear opinions on the ground from both sides. Some things I've learned or concluded: Young Palestinians are much more radical than older ones, who seem more flexible. I personally think the two-state solution is a non-starter, and watched these videos to see if a one state solution is at all viable (m…

Have you thought about why young Palestinians have a different opinion from older ones? The opinion of powerless people is not set in stone, but is often a reaction to things outside of their control.

Older ones used to be able to work in Israel as migrant workers.

After the 2nd Intifada and Hamas's takeover of Gaza, Israel cracked down on Palestinian migrant workers and began importing labor from Thailand, Nepal, and other countries.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#783

Post by orik »

A1kmm wrote: post #521
jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

I’m not sure how all this can be said with a straight face; that you are “pro-israel” you just think the borders should be set back over 50 years and that a democratically elected government’s actions is worse than those of a terrorist organization.

Not once did you mention what atrocities were committed on Hamas’s side and instead you spent all your effort justifying Hamas by arguing how you think Lukid is worse.

What actions in your opinion would be an appropriate response for people (& government) of Israel to respond to the targeted rape, murder, beheadings of the elderly, men, women, and children, which was filmed by Hamas and sometimes live-streamed on the social media accounts of their victims to show off what they have achieved?

I’m not sure you can claim to be in the middle or support ‘both sides / both peoples’ when you only have bad things to say about one of them.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#784

Post by HybridCurve »

ac130kz wrote: post #711
HybridCurve wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed quite a bit of propaganda which is intentionally conflating these two pairs. That is, those who are advocating for Gazans are referred to as Hamas supporters and those advocating on behalf of Israeli citizens are accused of supporting genocide, etc. This is done to polarize both groups, encourage strongly negative emotional reactions, and prevent anyone from taking a more reasonable perspective to addres…

Try to argue and "make a peaceful treaty" with a ruling party of terrorists (greatly supported by the population btw), who want to completely obliterate Israel, launch rockets from their own houses near their own children, which has been factually proven countless amount of times. Same goes to Russia, DPRK, Iran, these are narrow minded non-negotiable despotic countries, they want only their way, regardless of casual…

For any side of conflict which is playing zero-sum, there can be no negotiations which are beneficial to both. Only one side has to commit to this strategy to condemn the other side to this path. Authoritarianism is an awful method of government which often ensures the minimum amount of people necessary will contribute to a solution for that nation which will benefit only the most privileged. All these countries mentioned are prime examples, and Israel is not exempt from criticism given Bibi's actions over the past few years.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#785

Post by alephnerd »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #709
FailMore wrote: post #601

I have not read this article. I am sad to see it here. I am Jewish and Hacker News has been my one sanctuary from all that has been going on. I feel a dreadful sadness about this whole situation, and unfortunately I have found that any issue I have looked into in any detail descends into a battle of claim and counterclaim. I have had to just give up and let it play out, not only what has happened and what will happen…

I know a lot of Palestinians and they don't have the luxury of avoiding the news because they still have family in Gaza.

A couple of my colleagues are VCs who are in active combat in Gaza as we speak. Another VC I knew lost his daughter in the Nova massacre (or is a hostage - they don't know yet). This VC was very active in the peace process and lobbied a very large tech company we all know to open a large development office in West Bank and Gaza and pay pretty high salaries. I also know a lot of line level engineers and PMs from my previous jobs who are drafted, knew people drafted, or knew people at Nova. You can and should oppose war crimes, but at the end of the day, Hamas, PIJ, and other Gazan jihadi groups did unspeakable actions on 10/7. And honestly, I've seen and heard of Afghans fighting back against the Taliban, but I haven't seen Gazans fighting back against Hamas.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#786

Post by typon »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think what's relevant is that people see a genocide happening and it's common sense to condemn the people committing it.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#787

Post by stefan_ »

Animats wrote: post #383

Some of this information war seems to be intended from keeping the US from considering a third option - sitting this one out. One U.S. State Department official resigned over this when he saw Israel's weapons shopping list.[1] The US could provide humanitarian aid, but not military aid. Cut military aid to Israel. Maybe still provide Iron Dome reloads, but that's about it. Bring in a hospital ship off Gaza, to care f…

Wait until this State Department official finds all the weapons sold to Saudi Arabia

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#788

Post by throwaway936162 »

incrudible wrote: post #141
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

My slightly-informed opinion? Two cooperating factors.

1. The extraordinary effective Hamas organization. Hamas has set itself up to benefit from atrocities committed upon the people of Gaza. Every civilian death is a point for Hamas, the more so the better publicized it is. A point for Hamas is obviously not a point for regular people in Gaza. And Hamas provoked Israel as much as it could manage, and continues to provoke Israel by engaging in military operations from civilian sites, leading to:

2. Israel doesn’t understand this, and is entirely willing to play right into Hamas’ hands, in the name of its own security. And it looks really, really bad.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#789

Post by lazyasciiart »

orik wrote: post #783
A1kmm wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

I’m not sure how all this can be said with a straight face; that you are “pro-israel” you just think the borders should be set back over 50 years and that a democratically elected government’s actions is worse than those of a terrorist organization. Not once did you mention what atrocities were committed on Hamas’s side and instead you spent all your effort justifying Hamas by arguing how you think Lukid is worse. Wh…

They did in fact mention what Hamas did - when they said civilian deaths caused by Likud are an order of magnitude higher. Perhaps they think civilian deaths are intrinsically bad, and don’t feel the need to calculate that one beheading is worth 5 children dead for lack of medical care, or whatever the official rate is?

Also, a reminder that Putin and Hamas were also democratically elected, and I don’t see why that has any relevance to whether their actions should be condemned or not.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#790

Post by lazyasciiart »

yyyk wrote: post #738
woodruffw wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently. It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.

Take that logic further. Israel's enemies outnumber it by 10x or more and are more than ruthless enough to sacrifice as many as necessary*. There's no way ever that Israel could avoid having the other side having more casualties. The same would apply to every minority. If your suggested law of war isn't 'majority or ruthless minority, get to do everything they want because they have more causalties', than you need an…

I do recall opposition to America’s post 9-11 response based on the same arguments, oddly enough.

The current laws of war do not allow, for instance, strikes at medical facilities: Israel’s argument is that they don’t have to follow the laws because Hamas is breaking them.

Post reply on HN