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A coder considers the waning days of the craft

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Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#781

I have a simple front-end test that I give to junior devs. Every few months I see if ChatGPT can pass it. It hasn’t. It can’t. It isn’t even close. It answers questions confidently but with subtle inaccuracies. The code that it produces is the same kind of non-sense that you get from recent bootcamp devs who’ve “mastered” the 50 technologies on their eight page résumé. If it’s gotten better, I haven’t noticed. Self-d…

I've told people, every experiment I do with it, it seems to do better than asking stack overflow, or helps me prime some code that'll save me a couple of hours, but still requires manual fix ups and a deep understanding of what it generates so I can fix it up.

Basically the gruntest of grunt work it can do. If I explain things perfectly.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#782
post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you make a custom gpt which knows a specific code base? I have been wanting to do this

I use the new feature of creating a custom gpt and I keep adding new information ; files, structures etc by editing the gpt. It seems to work well.

Ah ok so you have to paste entire files in 1 by 1, you can't just add it locally somehow? too bad you cant just upload a zip or something...

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#783
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on a team developing a critical public safety system on a tight deadline a few years ago, and i had to translate some wireframes for the admin back-end into CSS. I did a passable job but it wasn’t a perfect match. I was asked to redo it by the team-lead. It had zero business value, but such was the state of our team…being pixel perfect was a source of pride. It was one of the incidents that made me to stop fron…

> middling generalists can now compete with specialists. They can maybe compete in areas where there has been a lot of public discussion about a topic, but even that is debatable as there are other tasks than simply producing code (e.g. debugging existing stuff). In areas where there's close to no public discourse, ChatGPT and other coding assistance tools fail miserably.

this be the answer. GPT is as good as the dataset it's trained off of, and if you're going by the combined wisdom of StackOverflow then you're going to have a middling time.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#784
post #727
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on a team developing a critical public safety system on a tight deadline a few years ago, and i had to translate some wireframes for the admin back-end into CSS. I did a passable job but it wasn’t a perfect match. I was asked to redo it by the team-lead. It had zero business value, but such was the state of our team…being pixel perfect was a source of pride. It was one of the incidents that made me to stop fron…

You may think it did a good job because of your limited CSS ability. I'd be amazed if ChatGPT can create pixel-perfect animations and transitions along with reusable clean CSS code which supports all of the browser requirements at your org. I've seen the similar claims made on Twitter by people with zero programming ability claiming they've used ChatGPT to build an app. Although 99% of the time what they've actually…

Here’s the thing though:

If a new version of the app can be generated on the fly in minutes, why would we need to worry about reusability?

GPT generated software can be disposable.

Why even check the source code in to git - the original source artifact is the prompt after all.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#785
post #444

I have a simple front-end test that I give to junior devs. Every few months I see if ChatGPT can pass it. It hasn’t. It can’t. It isn’t even close. It answers questions confidently but with subtle inaccuracies. The code that it produces is the same kind of non-sense that you get from recent bootcamp devs who’ve “mastered” the 50 technologies on their eight page résumé. If it’s gotten better, I haven’t noticed. Self-d…

I was on a team developing a critical public safety system on a tight deadline a few years ago, and i had to translate some wireframes for the admin back-end into CSS. I did a passable job but it wasn’t a perfect match. I was asked to redo it by the team-lead. It had zero business value, but such was the state of our team…being pixel perfect was a source of pride. It was one of the incidents that made me to stop fron…

> being pixel perfect was a source of pride.

Then use LaTex and PDF. CSS is not for designing pixel perfect documents.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#786
As a developer many people ask me if I am worried about AI making my job obsolete. I always answer truthfully, "I CAN'T WAIT for AI to make my job obsolete!".

After trying several AI tools in the hope of replacing my coding job I find that the tools are good at the bike-shedding tasks like generating some initial code (the easy stuff for me) and terrible at the real work (maintenance and adding features to an existing codebase).

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#787
post #444

I have a simple front-end test that I give to junior devs. Every few months I see if ChatGPT can pass it. It hasn’t. It can’t. It isn’t even close. It answers questions confidently but with subtle inaccuracies. The code that it produces is the same kind of non-sense that you get from recent bootcamp devs who’ve “mastered” the 50 technologies on their eight page résumé. If it’s gotten better, I haven’t noticed. Self-d…

I was on a team developing a critical public safety system on a tight deadline a few years ago, and i had to translate some wireframes for the admin back-end into CSS. I did a passable job but it wasn’t a perfect match. I was asked to redo it by the team-lead. It had zero business value, but such was the state of our team…being pixel perfect was a source of pride. It was one of the incidents that made me to stop fron…

> middling generalists can now compete with specialists

Great point. That's been my experience as well. I'm a generalist and ChatGPT can bring me up to speed on the idiomatic way to use almost any framework - provided it's been talked about online.

I use it to spit out simple scripts and code all day, but at this point it's not creating entire back-end services without weird mistakes or lots of hand holding.

That said, the state of the art is absolutely amazing when you consider that a year ago the best AIs on the market were Google or Siri telling me "I'm sorry I don't have any information about that" on 50% of my voice queries.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I recently asked ChatGPT to produce similar CSS and it did so flawlessly. I use ChatGPT every day for many tasks in my work and find it very helpful, but I simply do not believe this. > The article points this out: middling generalists can now compete with specialists. I'd say it might allow novices to compete with middling generalists, but even that is a stretch. On the contrary, ChatGPT is actually best suited to…

That's about my experience. The worst dev on my team uses ChatGPT a lot, and its facilitated him producing more bad code more quickly. I'm not sure it's a win for anyone, and he's still unlikely to be with the team in a year. It allows a dev who doesn't care about their craft or improving to generate code without learning anything. The code they generate today or a year from today is the same quality. Part of it is t…

I have a hunch that using ChatGPT might be a skill in of itself and it doesn’t necessarily hurt or help any particular skill level of developers.

In previous replies in this thread the claim is it helps novices compete with associates or associates with seniors but in reality, it will probably help any tier of skill level. You just have to figure out how to prompt it

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#789
Instead of ChatGPTing things in what I work in, I have sought to improve my knowledge a lot in shell scripting, I am reading man pages more diligently (even if I am not dilgent enough) and seek to use documentation first, such as man pages, software documentation, etc. before even going to search for something. I am not perfect, but I feel like most of the problems I have are present in manuals - I am RTFMing myself.

I do this because I wasn't like that in the past and I hate myself for not being more deliberate in reading and discovering things organically through doing things. This is not about joy, (even though it makes me happy) but my obligation to myself and then to my employer to be good at what I do.

Sitting with a chat bot undermines this urge to be a better developer completely. I will probably be argued with, but I have worked with a lot of smarter people, but I realized after many years, (and what the article alludes to), that they have a very strong sense to fight through myriads of almost random problems, but they have the knack at solving those problems intelligently.

I remember specific co-worker that used an even plainer Emacs config than I did to write Java code. I was genuinely curious what his thought process was when trying to remember APIs without anything more special than simple modes for jumping around a codebase. He said "I don't know, I just read the manual first."

Yes! If he can do that, I can do that. After that, a lot with working with computers is about continually pushing through those random problems to their solution. This is an absolutely precious skill. I don't feel the affected yet, but I will be, I expect - lesser quality searches while we have to push our chat bots sub-sub-problems instead of just understanding what we are using. I don't want to and I will continue to hold out, like all the other essentially dumb technologies I am now stuck with (I am looking at my two mobile phones now ...)

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a security person, I look forward to the nearly infinite amount of work I'll be asked to do as people reinvent the last ~30 years of computer security with AI-generated code.

Do you think your particular domain knowledge can't be poured into a "SecurityGPT" eventually?

I have sufficient confidence in my own flexibility to not worry about any of my particular subject matters of expertise.
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