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FedNow Is Live

federalreserve.gov

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#781

Post by cubefox »

theptip wrote: post #769
cubefox wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Laypeople are not the target audience for this Why not? There is no reason you couldn't buy a coke with it, with a fraction of the usual credit card fee. It just needs to be implemented.

Same reason that laypeople are not the target audience of AWS. It’s a building block you use to build a product, not a product.

Not necessarily. In Germany we have "GiroPay", which literarily redirects you to a prefilled form in your online banking website. You have to choose your bank, enter your PIN, and click "okay". It's basically the same complexity as PayPal. (It's not hugely popular currently because it's fairly new and credit based services like PayPal have a headstart.)

Re: FedNow Is Live

#782

Post by jojobas »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #522
lmm wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A discussion forum similar to, say, Something Awful (or indeed HN), with a focus on mocking online misbehaviour and a reputation for unpopular political views.

>with a focus on mocking online misbehaviour and a reputation for unpopular political views. A less generous interpretation is that they coordinate harassment campaigns against transgender people and have caused at least three suicides.

This interpretation is also dishonest.

One of the three suicides seems to have not happened at all (would have been reported to the US consul in Japan), two others were attributed to posts that did not comply to KF moderation standards, were created by freshly registered users and were removed much faster than similar stuff typically remains visible on Twitter of Facebook.

Thought experiment: if KF founder committed suicide, would you demand deplatforming MotherJones?

Re: FedNow Is Live

#783

Post by px43 »

HoyaSaxa wrote: post #327
ccleve wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell us as much as you can about the tech stack. What is going to be able to handle truly massive volumes of transactions? Database, hardware, communications channels, programming lang, everything.

Not trying to side-step the question, but The FedNow Service Technical Overview and Planning Guide[1] goes into depth on what is not under NDA. [1] https://explore.fednow.org/resources/technical-overview-guid...

> The FedNow Service requires all messages to be cryptographically signed. The service validates the signature and association between the entity sending the message and the key used to sign it.

Hey, that's neat. I'm super curious how much the internals of this thing could be compared with something like a cryptocurrency. Are those signatures representative of the identities making the transaction? Might it be technically feasible some day for me to craft a transaction on my phone to send money to someone, then publish it directly, and have the person instantly confirm that they received a payment without needing to talk to a bank?

I'm really curious if this is what is going to eventually morph into the CBDC that everyone seems so excited about, or if that project is going to start from scratch.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#784

Post by twosdai »

kelnos wrote: post #532
yieldcrv wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from playing devil’s advocate, do you have a sensible reason why it should be this way versus another way?

I would assume such a system is capable of facilitating fraud, so it's probably good to have some kind of financial hurdle you have to jump in order to use it? Not that having $25k or $50k is a guarantee that you aren't a fraudster, but I imagine there are a lot of would-be fraudsters who don't have that kind of cash on hand. I do think this is a bit of a weak justification, though.

Funny enough this appears at face value to be the same idea behind proof of stake concensus protcals.... lololol

Re: FedNow Is Live

#785

Post by fastball »

yieldcrv wrote: post #711
landemva wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like a centralized exchange in which funds can be seized, censored, and the participating brokers are licensed. Nothing like bitcoin.

this is an odd consensus because you just described how all bitcoin exchanges in the US operate. they are centralized in which funds can be seized, censored, and they all have money services licenses just like their corresponding banks do. right, not like bitcoin, like bitcoin exchanges , just like the person said and you somehow ignored. far more similarities than differences for this comment and the other comments…

There are decentralized exchanges which operate in the US.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#786

Post by fastball »

cubefox wrote: post #781
theptip wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason that laypeople are not the target audience of AWS. It’s a building block you use to build a product, not a product.

Not necessarily. In Germany we have "GiroPay", which literarily redirects you to a prefilled form in your online banking website. You have to choose your bank, enter your PIN, and click "okay". It's basically the same complexity as PayPal. (It's not hugely popular currently because it's fairly new and credit based services like PayPal have a headstart.)

But GiroPay is a product built on whatever payment rail is in use in Germany. In the same vein you need "FedPay" to make this as easy for the consumers. FedNow by itself won't really cut it.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#787

Post by fastball »

xyst wrote: post #588
Mortiffer wrote: post #83

Amazing news. Kinda sad to see that Stripe was not on the list of early adopters but I'm sure they will implement it soon. In Switzerland we build an awesome eBill system ontop of the equivalent thing to FedNow. Its all run by Six Group which is the biggest Stock Exchange but it is jointly owned by the big banks and government. So they all agreed to add this eBilling system. Its so much superior to having paper come…

FedNow can undercut most of their credit card processing business. Not sure why they would even get on board.

Stripe doesn't take the credit card processing fees. The card processing fees go to the card processor, who is not Stripe.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#788

Post by hardwaresofton »

TheBengaluruGuy wrote: post #631

In India, there’s something similar to FedNow called UPI — “Unified Payments Interface” that really disrupted the market completely about 7 years ago — it is interoperable, works instantly and has no charges. It was phenomenal how that grew and got adopted, keen to see how FedNow changes the American payments systems.

Do you think that eventually UPI will be a vector for more efficient taxation?

IIRC India has relatively high tax rates, but has struggled with collection in the past -- maybe I'm being overly paranoid, but UPI seems like the perfect mix of usefulness and convenience to get everyone hooked, then once it's widely adopted enough (let's say 80/90%+ of payments) a sales tax could be enforced.

I don't know the specifics of how much identification UPI requires, but you could levy all sorts of taxes that way if you knew who was who.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#789

Post by pjg »

kelnos wrote: post #519
HoyaSaxa wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is absolutely a use case. Similar to Venmo, there is also a Request for Payment (RFP) mechanism. I'm on the Request for Payment (RFP) Work Group that is composed of a number of financial institutions, service providers, and billers. Netflix is part of the RFP Work Group. So presumably they are interested in offering consumers the ability to pay for Netflix using FedNow instead of a credit card. Instead of N…

> So presumably they are interested in offering consumers the ability to pay for Netflix using FedNow instead of a credit card. I do wonder how stuff like this will shake out. I will use a credit card, always, with any vendor that doesn't pass along credit card fees to the customer in some way. (Why would I choose otherwise? The credit card gives me rewards, and better fraud protection.) But more and more, I see comp…

RFP i.e. Request for Payment is not part of this release. Furthermore there is no ETA from the Fed as to the release date for RFP.

Currently FedNow is simply a push payment system i.e. bank account holder may be able to use FedNow to push money out from their bank account to someone else's bank account.

The limitation here is the bank account holder must know the account number of the recipient. This is a huge limiter in adoption since most people don't want to share their bank account numbers and maintaining a directory of people's bank account numbers is cumbersome to say the least

Yes, the Fed is working on a directory but they have not yet announced the launch date for such a directory, not have they mentioned the index i.e. will it be phone number ? email ? something else ?

Bottom line: FedNow launch: Step in the right direction but still a long way to go

Re: FedNow Is Live

#790

Post by artificialLimbs »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #618
Frummy wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In front of your eyes: TSO-ISPF for everything. IDz for the 5 seconds per month that code is actually written Test env: Separate permanent envs. From playground where nothing matters, env with some fake data in similar databases and variants of all systems, to mirror of prod with anonymised data, then prod There are dummy online banking web interfaces What sets it apart is that the operating system is painful to use…

> And your employer is paranoid and keeps you in a digital prison for security That, um, sounds reasonable to me in the context of what they're developing.

>> the operating system is painful to use and never stops being painful to use.

But this is regretful, and slows down everything by orders of magnitude. One of the big problems is lack of EFFICIENT documentation/Quick Starts. The guides are labrynthine in layout, looping and colliding spiders' webs of wtfness.

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