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Why I Left Rust

jntrnr.com

781–790 of 880 posts

Re: Why I Left Rust

#781
post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But afaik, no one has proffered an adequate word to describe "folks that have too much melanin to be considered white". Such a word is not necessary or desirable, because the categorization system it supports is not meaningful or useful.

Of course it's necessary and desirable. The "categorization system" in question already exists, whether it ought to or not. Bipoc have a more difficult socioeconomic situation, because of their skin color. Should "LGBTQ+" as a category not exist, because they are people just like straight people? It is useful and meaningful to talk about the plight and state of, and advocate for, "Group XYZ that has been marginalized…

All of these people are "bipoc", supposedly:

- Dark-skinned descendant of American slaves, living in the US

- Dark-skinned recent immigrant to US from Africa, whose parents were important government officials, and one of whose distant ancestors sold slaves to Europeans

- Descendant of Navajo Indians

- Descendant of indigenous Hawaiians

- Descendant of Japanese Hawaiians

- Decendant of Japanese immigrants from turn of 20th century, who were interned in a camp during the war

- Japanese immigrant who moved to US in 2005, for university

- Son of migrant Mexican farmworkers

- Descendant of conquistadores whose parents were top executives in a large Mexican corporation

- Lebanese Muslim immigrant

- Lebanese Christian immigrant

- And so on…

What interesting characteristic do these people all have in common, that "white" people don't also share? Absolutely nothing, other than that they don't tick the "non-Hispanic white" box on stupid USian forms.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to pick better leaders. This should never have happened in the first place. Whoever is responsible for this needs to go.

You must be fun at incident review. "The solution is to hire better engineers. Our root cause analysis shows that this should have never happened in the first place. Whoever is responsible for this needs to go."

You’re missing the distinction here between incompetence and malice. One member of leadership acted maliciously; the fact that they were successful indicates that leadership as a whole was missing some controls (formal or otherwise). The latter party is analogous to whichever engineer accidentally brought down prod, whom our post-mortems should not blame—but the former is not.

If some dirtbag got angry about being passed over for a promotion, got offers for a new gig, and then rage-deleted prod at 5pm on their last day, you get to blame that dude at the post-mortem.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, no kidding: https://old.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/vxgzrl/changes_in_the... Mod response: > For all those wondering about removed comments, there was some trolling going on which was summarily removed by the mods. > Please avoid any trolling and/or drama seeking comments and remember our subreddit rules. "Trolling" on display in the archives of that thread: https://www.reveddit.com/v/rust/comments/vxgzrl/changes…

I've been involved with Software Development for over 20 years started with VB6 and some perl/python in 1998. I saw the "informal code of conduct" and it never worked. What really happened: many people were treating terribly and most of it was swept under the rug. CoC were created for valid and good reasons. I'm not defending the Rust community here, it seems childish to me. The past is not what you are trying to cla…

I am an older geek. I never got the CoC against sexual harassments. It is f*cking illegal. Should be reported to the police and taken care of by the actual laws.

Coc seems like a law thing but who is enforcing it? Laws you have democratic elected people voting which laws, you have police checking if people follow them, courts giving out punishment. See they are 3 separate entities for a reason. Coc is written by the org, enforced by the org an punished by said org. Doesn't seem like an improvement.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Rust members were "uncomfortable" with this purely technical viewpoint - not their behavior, personal beliefs, or even their demographic? Claim of "feeling uncomfortable" was invented to be a tool of political fighting which allows to declare something, or somebody as unacceptable, completely avoiding debates. As it's becoming generally normalized, it's absolutely logical that it spills into other fields of human in…

It's also great because there's no way for you to dispute my claims of feeling uncomfortable / "unsafe", since these (alleged) feelings occur in my own head. No one can dispute my feelings. And if you're foolish enough to allow my (claimed) feelings to govern your behaviour I now have arbitrary control over you. Neat huh?

Except that is BS because these are purely technical positions being reacted towards, not anything about human relationships or power dynamics

Re: Why I Left Rust

#785
post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical. This incident in particular doesn't prove that Rust has more zealots. Every single Rust dev I've worked with is a normal programmer who prioritizes merit and rational process. If you're already unfriendly towards the Rust community then this incident will only deepen your bias. I urge you to not assess the community with this flawed thought process. Rust devs are like all others.

This incident in particular doesn't prove that Rust has more zealots. At no point did I claim it did. If you're already unfriendly towards the Rust community Where did I state this? It seems you are touchy on this front. And it seems as if saying that the rust community has some zealots, upsets you. Most other dev languages don't even have "communities".

> Rust has more zealots, than every other language combined.

> And it seems as if saying that the rust community has some zealots, upsets you.

First saying "more than every other language combined" and then changing tone to say "some" is disingenuous. And please don't try to technically argue that the former doesn't have to more then the latter - the underlying insinuation is pretty obvious.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#786
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Rust project needs to stamp this out before it begins to fester. https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/23/rust_moderation_team_... There seems be something rotten at Rust and I've no idea what but anyone who gets a close look at Rust leadership seems to sprint away. It doesn't seem to be a matter of stamping something out it'll be an entire overhaul.

From Rust team discussion at Reddit, it's not that anyone sprints away, the answer is that no one has the time to balance volunteering for Rust, working on code, reviewing, doing technical review, and then on top of that moderation and doing diplomatic stuff. Essentially no-one wants to do diplomatic stuff, so it falls to only person that likes doing that stuff (which isn't a good thing). Which can leads to episodes…

Who is that person?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is well in line with the woke culture, everything is about feelings, and not rational arguments. They need trigger warnings, and if things hurt some feefee's, its simply unacceptable regardless of factual matters. that is why it is so disruptive in a professional setting, and kills all real honest cooperation

This is an absurd post, these tirades against the boogeyman of “woke culture” are so tiresome. Engage with the content of the blog post instead of deferring to this tribal bullshit.

[flagged]

Re: Why I Left Rust

#788
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your statement as a whole but have a small nitpick (on your small nitpick) > as if white is not a color But ‘person of color’ doesn’t include white people in the same way that ‘anti-semitic’ doesn’t include racism against Arabs. Yes, Arabs are also of Semitic descent, and yes white is a color, the meanings are not one-to-one mapped from their components. To deny that is to deny large portions of the Engl…

Yup. The actual meaning of a composite symbol cannot in general be guessed from its constituent elements. This is pernicious in languages where the writing system has even a little of such character, and leads to stuff like e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_%22crisis%22 It's OK to use this sort of playing with words in your stand-up routine, (e.g. Tylor Tomlinson's "Lot of my friends are settling do…

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_%22crisis%22

As a (somewhat) native Chinese speaker, the contents of this page is kind of confusing to me, because as far as I can tell, the original saying sounds correct, or at least not wrong.

If you search online for the phrase "有危就有機" (literally meaning: where there is danger there is opportunity) you'll see many results. It's a common saying (that said this could be due to influence by the English world, who knows).

It's true that "機" by itself can have different meanings, and "in isolation" probably should mean 'change point' rather than 'opportunity'... but that's kind of splitting hairs since the meanings kind of blend together. Also, in Mandarin I don't recall seeing any use of "機" "in isolation", making the claim rather contrived. In my native Cantonese, "機" in isolation usually means "機會" i.e. chance or opportunity.

I also observe that the wikipedia page points to non-Chinese sources that "debunk" the myth. I have no idea why they felt the need to be so pedantic about this case... Meanwhile, on social media we routinely see quotes attributed to Confucius, and sometimes it's a fun game trying to figure out whether the quote was legit, poorly translated, or completely made up :P

Re: Why I Left Rust

#789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly yes, it's not a new thing. Lisp is a good example of an old language that attracted a very particular community around it that did put some people off.

Guess, now that I think about it, Python and the 'white' spaces was kind of drama. But think it was still about technical merits, like do you prefer that style or not, don't remember the 'community' being melodramatic.

Putting all the drama aside, "clearspaces" would be better, no? What if my editors background is black? Then whitespaces would stand out like white bars.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#790
post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew the people who come up with a compiler and syntax which just screams drama would also love drama in their real lives. That's why I stick with Go. No drama syntax, no drama conferences.

>a compiler and syntax which just screams drama A what now?

Yeah, what's up with ending everything with a question mark and pulling stunts like :#?, huh? /s
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