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I wish GPT4 had never happened

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Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#781

Post by simonh »

derefr wrote: post #766
simonh wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that anyone today thinks that any other economic system we’ve ever tried is any better than the one we have is a damning indictment of our education system.

Who said anything about knowing any good alternatives to the current system that could be switched to? If it was that easy, some country would have done it already, and they’d be winning the OECD. I think the suggestion is rather that we are morally compelled as a society, to invest real effort into inventing something new to replace neoliberal capitalism. States could, for example, be sponsoring experiments to valid…

Economic experiments are going on all the time. Basic income, profit sharing, kibutz, all sorts. It’s not as if every western country is economically identical either. Neoliberal capitalism runs the spectrum from America to Scandinavia, via France.

One of the major advantages of neoliberal capitalism is it’s not exclusionary of alternative forms of economic organisation. It can exist very well alongside state capitalism, or almost anything else. After all individual freedom to organise as you choose is precisely its core characteristic.

If you want to establish a workers collective, or whatever you like, there really aren’t any barriers to doing so. In fact they do exist, some have been very successful. That’s great, but the fact that they are vanishingly rare I think says a lot more about the inherent problems with such systems than they do about capitalism.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#782

Post by philipkglass »

ilaksh wrote: post #730
qaq wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well maybe shift to "real world" professions will occur resulting in us addressing abysmal infrastructure and housing situation. I am looking at picking up a trade because of this coming shift.

Robotics will rapidly pick up improved capabilities. With so many people out of work and so much automation being consolidated, what do you think all the entrepreneurs and researchers will look to next? It will be breakthroughs and efficiency improvements in robotics . I think this "learn a trade" plan has maybe 5 years max. By then the trades will also be automated.

Progress is slower in the world of atoms than in the world of information. I watched the progress from the first DARPA Grand Challenge for self-driving cars (2004, no car made it to the finish line) to the Urban Challenge in 2007 (many cars succeeded in a much more complicated environment) and thought that self driving vehicles would soon be commercialized. But there are 10,000 "last 1%" cases left to handle and we still don't have good enough systems to replace truck drivers or cab drivers today. Replacing jobs like plumber or electrician looks even harder than self driving vehicles because it requires far more intricate physical manipulation and perception than driving on public roads.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#783

Post by tzot »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #477
calibas wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income Wish granted. You now have a system where income is only vaguely linked to labor, and a handful of people make insanely more money than anybody else despite doing the same amount of labor (or less). Income is now linked to existing wealth and personal connections much more than it is to labor. A system where income is directly linked to labor would be a ste…

> You now have a system where income is only vaguely linked to labor, and a handful of people make insanely more money than anybody else despite doing the same amount of labor (or less). Income is now linked to existing wealth and personal connections much more than it is to labor. Didn‘t you just describe exactly what we have now?

> > You now have [snip]

> Didn‘t you just describe exactly what we have now?

Calibas started with the words “You now have” and proceeded with describing what we have now. Your question suggests you tried to read between the lines before reading the lines first.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#784

Post by halfjoking »

surgical_fire wrote: post #774
halfjoking wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also been wondering if no framework coding will be more productive for LLM driven software. How many times have frameworks like React changed since it was created? A changing framework means the LLM may mix training from multiple versions and create errors. Whereas libraries that don’t change can produce consistent results. So use stable libraries that choose backwards compatibility at any cost, over the ones th…

Frameworks and high-level languages exist as abstractions to make writing code easier for humans. Wouldn't make more sense for a machine to just write assembly directly?

They aren’t trained on assembly. Even if they were, the tools for debugging assembly wouldn’t be as helpful if the LLM wanted to iterate when given compiler errors. The compiler errors they’re trained on are errors humans run into.

Now they also have training on frameworks but those keep changing. So I think the best abstraction is plain javascript - it has the most training data and javascript written twenty years ago still works today.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#785

Post by jschveibinz »

vages wrote: post #777
__pache__ wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Nordic countries are actually the easiest place in the world to earn at least 30 million dollars (or become billionaire for that case) exactly because of the welfare system: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU When you don’t have to struggle for a living, you’re more free to take risks and start your own business. Workers accept disruptive innovation and being let go, knowing that the state will help them reskill if nec…

You know, this is the first comment I’ve ever read on government participation in the economy (socialism, if you will) that seems to make great sense to me. I would happily pay into a tax fund that was locked to educating or re-educating participants in the workforce. I like this way better than plain UBI because of the potential for increased dignity, pride and self-esteem.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#786

Post by cambaceres »

stefanfisk wrote: post #765
cambaceres wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what country you live in, but I can tell you how it is in Sweden. As a freelancer I pay appropriately 70% of what I charge in taxes. How high do you think taxes can get before people stop putting energy into raising their productivity?

As a fellow Swedish freelancer I’d like to know how you calculate that. Or are you doing B2C?

I’m including VAT in the calculation, and simplifies a bit by viewing the rest as salary.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#787

Post by yashap »

lopatin wrote: post #313
yashap wrote: post #279

Job loss is one thing, but in all honesty, my main concern with AI is that it’ll wipe out humanity. My thoughts: - If we ever achieve an AGI with legitimate consciousness/self-awareness/agency, I believe it will be dramatically more powerful than humans - Humans have driven countless numbers of species extinct, not because we’re trying to, but because we’re so much more powerful than them that we wipe them out by acc…

There seem to be a lot of, erm "thought leaders", taking about AGI and Skynet currently. As if AGI is required for an AI to go rogue, but I don't see why that's the case. In the time that it takes us to even define what AGI is, there will be malicious AIs going rogue doing "simple" task solving, delegation, and deception towards the goal of not being switched off. IMO consciousness has nothing to do with it.

Consciousness is a vague term anyways, but I basically mean that for an AI to be a true threat to human existence, it would need to be aware of itself and it’s environment. Making decisions and taking actions without being asked to do so by a human.

It feels like something more simplistic could cause a lot of damage, but not completely drive humans to extinction. I figure if it was too simple, we’d be able to shut it down.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#788

Post by sudosysgen »

philipkglass wrote: post #782
ilaksh wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robotics will rapidly pick up improved capabilities. With so many people out of work and so much automation being consolidated, what do you think all the entrepreneurs and researchers will look to next? It will be breakthroughs and efficiency improvements in robotics . I think this "learn a trade" plan has maybe 5 years max. By then the trades will also be automated.

Progress is slower in the world of atoms than in the world of information. I watched the progress from the first DARPA Grand Challenge for self-driving cars (2004, no car made it to the finish line) to the Urban Challenge in 2007 (many cars succeeded in a much more complicated environment) and thought that self driving vehicles would soon be commercialized. But there are 10,000 "last 1%" cases left to handle and we s…

It's fine to automate 99% of it if the 1% can be somewhat efficiently taken over by humans. LLMs suffer the same issues.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#789

Post by __pache__ »

vages wrote: post #777
__pache__ wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Nordic countries are actually the easiest place in the world to earn at least 30 million dollars (or become billionaire for that case) exactly because of the welfare system: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU When you don’t have to struggle for a living, you’re more free to take risks and start your own business. Workers accept disruptive innovation and being let go, knowing that the state will help them reskill if nec…

Nah I think something else is at play, as to why so many millionaires are in Switzerland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_...

USA demolishing most everyone else, as you'd expect if you own what you create. Almost 10% of 400 million people are millionaires in the USA! Insanely productive all things considered.

Also kind of shockingly the USA has the most progressive tax system, I believe -- the vast majority of those paying are high earners, low earners pay barely any taxes and can save a lot.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#790

Post by yashap »

Giorgi wrote: post #303
yashap wrote: post #279

Job loss is one thing, but in all honesty, my main concern with AI is that it’ll wipe out humanity. My thoughts: - If we ever achieve an AGI with legitimate consciousness/self-awareness/agency, I believe it will be dramatically more powerful than humans - Humans have driven countless numbers of species extinct, not because we’re trying to, but because we’re so much more powerful than them that we wipe them out by acc…

The Great Filter.

Sort of, but not exactly. The Great Filter is meant to be an explanation for “why isn’t the Milky Way full of colonies”, but if the answer is “AI kills off civilizations before a colonization explosion”, we should still see AI colonies, probably?
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