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Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

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Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#781

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I still do not see how this makes any logical sense for Google. If: >Short term profits over long term profits are favored by Wall Street. Then: Why did they spend so much money inventing tech that so far has pretty much only allowed Microsoft to take money out of their pockets? I’m genuinely trying to figure out a perspective where Google doesn’t look like a clown car.

Google originally developed Transformers in 2017, and then proceeded to deploy them to enhance the results on a dead end of search they were already on. [1] It could be argued that nobody saw what will happen 6 years later. When we wrote the "Age of Page Rank is Over" article [2] just 4 months ago, many people did not understand what we talked about in the second part of the article although GPT3 was already a thing.…

GPT-3 was unveiled 2.5 years ago, and it was very well-received at the time… and since. As was DALL-E and Midjourney.

This entire time Google has just responded with “Yeah, all this AI stuff like transformers and diffusers, GANs etc? That’s transformative tech. We’ve got something way better though. No you can’t see it or use it, no we won’t use it to make it so our website stops being primarily an index of Pinterest and Yummly. Our product is literally so good that we cannot bring it to market.”

It is… hilarious

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

man that sucks. now it's a useless word, synonymous with "unreleased". remember the Phantom? classic vaporware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment

I've always thought that until it is actually released, and especially if there is slightly misleading information that it is there but YOU can't try it (but really nobody can but that is downplayed), than it is indistinguishable from long-term vaporware. Both Google's and Bing's announcements currently fall into this.

so like back in the day when gmail or Inbox were invite-only, you would've called those "vaporware" if you couldn't get access yourself, immediately? I just don't see the use of using this term for imminent releases.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#783
post #646

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> I wish I could just explain to ChatGPT what I need copied and pasted from one document to another or what needs to be filled out. Recently, in a conversation with ChatGPT, I gave him a system administration task and told him I was a Linux terminal running bash and I would paste and execute everything he told me into the shell (and respond with the output). It worked okay – I wouldn't recommend it for production use…

Gave “him”?

Ok, her.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#784
post #633
post #610

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The key is that AI needs to have a fiduciary duty to its users: it should always suggest the most economically advantageous deal for the user, not what is best for the AI if those are not aligned. Make a marketplace for targeted discounts to incentivize changed behavior. Many companies that sell consumables are happy to give a first sample free in hopes of repeat purchasing. If I ask AI for a good lavender scented ha…

I disagree with your premise. I do T want the cheapest thing automatically, especially if, as it often is, the difference is crappiness is more than the difference in price.

A fiduciary duty doesn't mean choosing the cheapest thing, it just means the AI can't base decisions off how much of a kickback the AI would receive for making/suggesting that choice.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#785
post #710

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Unfortunately, Firefox at this point looks like an incredible underdog or an endangered species.

That can be attributed to the Mozilla Foundation doing anything and everything other than focusing on Firefox.

I tend to attribute it a lot more to Chrome's many years of deceitful marketing and bundling itself as adware in other products including Adobe products.

Depending on your view of Firefox OS and if it was "Firefox enough", the "Mozilla Foundation doesn't focus enough on Firefox" is a relatively new complaint, but Firefox's biggest losses in market share happened well before even the Firefox OS effort.

(And the Firefox OS effort was to try to keep a competitor against Android and its Chrome hegemony viable, so it was a direct reaction to lost market share. And the current complaints of "Mozilla isn't doing enough Firefox" today are all the complaints about the various ways that Mozilla is trying to diversify their revenue stream and that too seems obviously because of lost market share, not the cause of it.)

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#786
post #725

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Your "dream" there fuels some of my nightmares. You may discount the potentially devasting threat of a possible massive ecological collapse from relying on one single implementation of web rendering because you don't think open source projects can die because "someone has the resources to potentially fork it", but open source is no guarantee. Beyond that, even discounting the threat of ecological collapse due to a si…

Can someone explain what's the whole deal with this "diversity" of browser engines? Do people also like "diversity" in C++ compiler implementations with "diverse" quirks and bugs unique to each implementation? or the diversity of Python interpreters? What's the point other than incompatibility and head ache?

The history of C/C++ is a great example. It also has more than a half century of history of the ecology widening into a lot of mostly standards-compliant implementations then one dominating for a while, crashing the diversity. The dominant one starts to do things less by the standards on the one side and developers on the other side start to get used to (over-)developing to quirks specific to that implementation. Then either a massive 0-day infects the entire ecology with very little resistance or there's a portability crisis because a new machine architecture or new operating system or something else like that that the old dominant vendor is ignoring or trying to sabotage.

We've even seen hints that all is not paradise even when that dominant vendor is "open source" in the post-gcc era where there was a long run of years where gcc was extremely dominant and there were concerns about platform-wide 0 days and where the gcc developers were playing fast and loose with the standards. Certainly those were "open source community decisions", but it was still too easy to PR non-standard features "that felt good" without going through deeper standards review processes.

It's generally seen as a great thing that today we aren't in one of those "one vendor dominated" periods and that we have both gcc and clang as competing, independent open source implementations each with relatively high adoption and slightly different niches/portability goals/downstream uses. It's also done much to help push commercial vendors back to competing on standards compliance. (Microsoft's C/C++ compiler is more standards compliant than ever, for example. Including its STL is now open source.)

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#787
post #345
post #276

Are people here actually trying this out or is it vaporware as of yet? I ask because this seems ambiguous: The new Bing is live today “for desktop limited preview,” but it appears users are only able to “ask” one of a number of preset queries and receive the same results each time. There is also a waitlist to sign up for full access in the future. If it's just an announcement of an announcement*, we should downweight…

Get this, if you use Edge, with bing as search by default and join the waitlist, then another button appears "get access faster" or something, which then takes you to a page to make sure you've defaulted everything to Microsoft, and you've scanned a QR code to download a Bing mobile app. I can't be bothered _all_ of that. Mainly the addition of a new mobile app.

It's funny because they're the underdog in search still but yet these are the tactics they're already pulling out of their hat, and like that all good faith is gone

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#788
post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain what's the whole deal with this "diversity" of browser engines? Do people also like "diversity" in C++ compiler implementations with "diverse" quirks and bugs unique to each implementation? or the diversity of Python interpreters? What's the point other than incompatibility and head ache?

I agree. This isn't as scary as people say. The threat is that Google does something evil and the web needs to adopt it. Thing is, Chromium is open source. Microsoft or anyone else can immediately fork it. Crisis averted.

The threat isn't just that Google does something intentionally evil.

Imagine if there's a WebKit 0-Day that Blink inherited discovered tomorrow that breaks ~96% of today's browsers as soon as that bad actor discoverer weaponizes it. (Or worse uses it to send malware or as an RCE vector.)

That's not something Google did intentionally. That's not something that forks can "immediately" fix. That's something that possibly forks make worse because everyone is going to be auditing different but similar codebases for the same bug and there may be some political infighting and finger pointing and accusations in a mexican standoff between the forks all accusing each other.

Most importantly, that is a lot of potential devices at major security risk to a single ecology "family of forks" of a code base.

What other piece of software does something like 96% of internet connected devices possibly have in common? We've got a variety of operating systems (Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS, Android, etc). We've got a variety of hardware stacks. We've got a variety almost everywhere but this one massive bottleneck growing worse. There's still some hope in the case of the hypothetical WebKit 0-Day that that diversity alone is enough to keep things from getting truly bad, but if you believe in software security you've probably had "defense in depth" drilled into your head and does "everyone uses the same browser codebase" sound like defense in depth?

That's the biggest nightmare scenario. There's lots of little iterations of that, including all the various little ways that standards might slowly get ignored or broken until some day the future web is wondering where the standards specs even are and can't find its way out of the box it was trapped in. If it happens little-by-little enough ("boiling the frog" as the aphorism goes) no one sees it as a clear threat at the time and no one thinks to "immediately fork it" until it is already far too late. To repeat something that needs repeating a lot in these conversations: the problem with IE6 wasn't that it was terrible and "behind", the problem with IE6 was that it was amazing and forward thinking and had boiled some frogs building specifications too quickly ahead of the standards bodies. People didn't notice the problems they had from that until after they'd built websites and apps with IE6 in mind because it was great at the time. People didn't notice the problems until after Microsoft felt they had done enough and took their ball and stopped playing because they had "innovated enough". People mostly didn't notice the problems until it was too late to get out of the box they'd been trapped in without realizing it. IE6 today has a reputation as a terrible browser that was stuck "behind" standards, but that's not where it did the most damage. It did the most damage when it was "the best browser to use", "the most innovative and powerful browser" and "everyone uses IE6 and is happy with it".

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge since the Chromium switch is cross-platform now. You can use Edge on Mac or Linux, too. It's not just for Windows. I prefer Firefox these days, but my work won't let me install Firefox right now so I'm using Edge on my work laptop as the best of the allowed options. At home Edge is the only Chromium browser I keep installed as I've always disliked Chrome itself but now there's far too many websites taking a "Wor…

> Edge since the Chromium switch is cross-platform now. You can use Edge on Mac or Linux, too. It's not just for Windows. Are they exactly the same, or do you have to be on Windows for the full feature set?

The only Windows-only/Windows-specific features that I'm aware of are "Group Policy Configuration" and "IE Mode" and both of those are limited to Domain-joined machines and targeted only at Enterprise users (and specifically, if you are feeling nasty about it, only at making Enterprise users' experiences worse).

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#790
post #754
post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain what's the whole deal with this "diversity" of browser engines? Do people also like "diversity" in C++ compiler implementations with "diverse" quirks and bugs unique to each implementation? or the diversity of Python interpreters? What's the point other than incompatibility and head ache?

> Do people also like "diversity" in C++ compiler implementations Not a C developer (and welcome C devs to chime in here) but my understanding is yes. People were really happy when we went from GCC as being the standard compiler to LLVM. > the diversity of Python interpreters? Yes, back (a decade ago) when I used to hack Python it was pretty cool to be able to get IronPython and re-use a bunch of .net assemblies in a…

For the GCC and Clang it's a case of a newer/better compiler architecture taking over an older one. At no point in time I see the advantage of keeping several implementations around just for the sake of "diversity".
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