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Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for putting this more eloquently than I could. To say the judges have been lenient with Infowars is an understatement - if you or I were in a civil suit, we would have been defaulted far quicker than Jones was because the judges wouldn't have to worry about a media circus spiraling out from it. Jones did not just throw out a discovery request assuming it was junk mail one time, this was completely intention…

> To say the judges have been lenient with Infowars is an understatement The man was fined more than any other person in the history of humanity for saying words. A billion dollars! pharmaceutical companies that knowingly and willfully killed people have not been fined to such an extent. And yet Alex was denied the ability to say words in his defence during his trial. "words" like "I'm innocent". Citizens respect the…

> The state would not allow him to have his say, to raise constitutional issues

I could just quote thwayunion's comments on not being allowed to re-litigate issues that were already decided on in an attempt to derail the damages phase of the trial, but Jones already attempted to argue that what he was doing was protected speech. (In fact, I wasn't even going to respond until I remembered his TCPA motions where he tried just that.)

In De La Rosa v. Alex Jones et al, (D-1-GN-18-001842, 345th District Court of Travis County, Texas), Infowars filed an anti-SLAPP motion, which is implemented in Texas under the Texas Citizens Participation Act (TCPA). From [0]:

> "The [TCPA] protects citizens who petition or speak on matters of public concern from retaliatory lawsuits that seek to intimidate or silence them." In re Lipsky, 460 S.W.3d 579, 584 (Tex. 2015) (orig. proceeding). The protection comes in the form of a motion to dismiss a suit that would stifle the defendants' exercise of those rights.

In the anti-SLAPP motion, Jones' attorneys argued the case on its merits - that is, at this point in the trial, they weren't attempting to delay and obstruct by any means necessary, they were actually cooperating with the court.

And yet, despite actually working with the court, their motion was denied, meaning the lawsuit was not dismissed for infringing upon Jones' first amendment rights. And this is extremely notable since the TCPA is one of the most aggressive anti-SLAPP statues in the country - that is, if you lose an anti-SLAPP motion in Texas, your speech is so insanely out of line that basically no court would consider it to be defensible under the first amendment. Again, from [0]:

> CONCLUSION

> Having determined that the parents established a prima facie case for defamation per se that was not subject to the defense raised by Appellants, we affirm the district court's order denying Appellants' motion to dismiss.

His other anti-SLAPP motions also failed.

In summary, Jones already tried the first amendment defense, and lost. Therefore, even if he cooperated and wasn't defaulted on, he would still be barred from presenting a free speech defense during the damages hearing, because the court had already decided that his speech was not protected by the first amendment.

[0]: https://casetext.com/case/jones-v-pozner

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#782
post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I cite the precedent of an individual plaintiff winning more than $50MM in a civil judgement? Sure. Hulk Hogan won $115MM in the Gawker case.

>Can I cite the precedent of an individual plaintiff winning more than $50MM in a civil judgement? No, can you cite a precedent for someone being ordered to pay almost a billion dollars for saying a mean thing on a blog. You said it's precedented, I was asking for the precedent.

> No, can you cite a precedent for someone being ordered to pay almost a billion dollars for saying a mean thing on a blog.

You're obsessing with the fact that the total of the individual damage awards is so high. But under the law, if you defame a lot of people, they each get their own individual damage awards; they don't have to share some abstract or artificial dollar amount between them.

So you want examples of high-dollar online defamation awards? LMGTFY: A Nevada guy won a $38 million jury verdict [0]. Three New Hampshire businessmen won a jury verdict of $274 million for defamatory billboards accusing them of being crooks [1]. A South Carolina mayor won a $50 million jury verdict against someone who sent defamatory emails [2]. I haven't looked to see whether these all stood up on appeal; feel free to do your own research.

[0] https://www.robertdmitchell.com/internet-defamation

[1] https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2017-09-29/jury-awards-record-b...

[2] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/south-carolina/artic...

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I think a journalist publishing false news stories would be recklessness anyway, not negligence.

Negligence is "shoulda known better". Recklessness is "did know better". It's significantly harder to prove recklessness.

As I understand that’s not correct. Recklessness is “I did something I knew I shouldn’t have done” and negligence is “I didn’t do something I knew I should have done”.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for putting this more eloquently than I could. To say the judges have been lenient with Infowars is an understatement - if you or I were in a civil suit, we would have been defaulted far quicker than Jones was because the judges wouldn't have to worry about a media circus spiraling out from it. Jones did not just throw out a discovery request assuming it was junk mail one time, this was completely intention…

> To say the judges have been lenient with Infowars is an understatement The man was fined more than any other person in the history of humanity for saying words. A billion dollars! pharmaceutical companies that knowingly and willfully killed people have not been fined to such an extent. And yet Alex was denied the ability to say words in his defence during his trial. "words" like "I'm innocent". Citizens respect the…

>>Citizens respect the outcomes of trials not because they follow a some set procedure, but because they think justice happened.

I'm following this discussion as it's educational, but fwiw, dear God no. I trust trials, inasmuch as I do, because I believe they follow a known, afore-indicated and public procedure, which is the only remotely meaningfilul thing that can try to provide equality of treatment and a sane outcome.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#785
post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof. I'll do the sentence diagramming for you. OP said: "It's not a BILLION. It's a BILLION divided by fifteen plaintiffs, which brings the per-plaintiff number to a high-but-precedented number." Th adjective "precedented" modifies "number". In this sentence, "number" refers to the quantity "a BILLION divided by fifteen plaintiffs". Clearly, it's the per-plaintiff number that OP refers to as "precedented", not the to…

Yes, you've defined what makes the judgement absurd. And because it's multiplicative and due solely to "mean words said on blog", then that leaves sane people to see how ridiculous the whole thing is. Imagine for a minute if Trump decided to sue everyone who called him a Russian agent on TV or in writing. The award would be in the trillions.

I'm enjoying this educational thread from the side / all sides, and trying to stay a reader more than participant as I'm not a lawyer, but I don't feel this can be honestly characterized as "mean things said in internet". This was repeated, wilful, cognizant and extremely damaging willification of inocent people, as well as causing and inciting real action and damage, to a massive audience. If I repeatedly and authoritatively tell millions of people to kill themselves, that's not "mean thing said on blog". If I repeatedly and authoritatively tell millions of people that murdered children were actors and incite my audience to action, that's not "mean things said on a blog". Discussion is much more interesting and productive if everybody engages in basic intellectual honesty in making their argument.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#786
Considering that America is such an advanced country mainly because of science and engineering, why is the american population so gullible as to believe the rantings of a madman. Even with a cursory glance one can easily say that Alex Jones is lying. This is so sad.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is extremely misleading LOL what? > Legacy media sells ads. Legacy media also typically has broadcasting equipment, large headcount, spectrum allocation, and so on. > Infowars sells products. I'm sure those supplements have extensive R&D and product development expenses /s

Yes you are implying they have the same margins and business model. They don’t. Surely alex Jones has broadcasting equipment. I didn’t defend alex Jones and i won’t. He’s a bad guy. But I care about accuracy. The idea that he’s rich is unfounded and silly

> Surely alex Jones has broadcasting equipment.

Broadcasting equipment. Think "towers/rented space on towers and dishes and antennas and radio engineers and technicians and insurance policies", not "microphones and a recording studio".

Neither he nor his companies have spectrum allocation or licenses to broadcast.

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