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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#781

Post by lupire »

andrepd wrote: post #767
omginternets wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatedly: I cannot defend the kind of "diversity" that would rather hire a rich brahmin than an inner-city American kid in need of a leg-up, just to fulfill some backwards skin-color quota. It's obscene, and insulting to all parties involved. I also worry that this nonsense will erode support for the kind of diversity I do defend, or worse, prompt some kind of revanchist backlash against visible minorities in genera…

Putting identity over class is the main sin of the modern "woke" movement, in my opinion. Seeing how much that identitarian, exclusionary, and sectarian thinking is promoted by mainstream media, I cannot help but think it is intentional, as a distraction.

USA has a long documented history of being deeply racist inside class consciousness, which is why poor non-whites compromise on "help rich and poor PoC" instead of only "help poor but only white people"

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#782

Post by extasia »

nonethewiser wrote: post #701
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you’re right and not unfairly discounting people who look or think different due to your prejudices, this just hurts mega-businesses profitability right? What’s the measurable material harm to you exactly? Can you prove it or do you just feel it? Still assuming you’re right, and not prejudiced, why is giving historically disadvantaged people a crutch to lean on so bad? Won’t at least some of them thrive and…

Racism is bad.

Who knew in 2022 this would end up being the "hot take" in Western culture...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#783

Post by lupire »

bitti wrote: post #730
slt2021 wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to think of it as first, second order effects. First order effect of DEI: - Bar is lowered in the name of DEI, to bring more diverse employees - Managers/CEOs/HRs get their bonuses for meeting DEI metrics Second order effects: - Hired minority employees find it hard to perform to the expected(or peer) level - Because lot more minority candidates were hired than if it were without DEI, performance issues…

Right you are... I used be a Manager at Volvo (Sweden) and I really like their approach to boost the diversity on the workplace. Instead of targets/or lowering the standards they were moving obstacles (childcare, flex work) and focusing on marketing amongst the diversity groups.

So, the same thing Big Tech company do.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#784

Post by ParetoOptimal »

nonethewiser wrote: post #695
adamwk wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet there are more white people in poverty than black people in the US Where are you people getting these stats? This is being repeated elsewhere and is not based in reality at all.

Why is that statistic even important to you? If it's about solving poverty then judge by how impoverished someone is, not their skin color. But it also shouldn't be surprising. There are almost 6x as many white people in the US as black people. Poverty rates amongst white people is about half of black people. Do the math.

>> Where are you people getting these stats? > Why is that statistic even important to you?

Your first inclination when someone ask for the source of the statistic you cite is to ask why it's important?

Do you expect anyone to take your argument seriously after doing that?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#785

Post by ParetoOptimal »

Octabrain wrote: post #495
nyuszika7h wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I hate to have to say something this obvious but here it goes: Discriminating against a group of human beings for an arbitrary detail such as the color of the skin is indeed racist. No matter if that human being is a freaking north-europe-blonde-arian-white or whatever. No matter if that human being is or not opressed or whatever. Judging people by the color of the skin is WRONG. This ideological bullshit that US is…

It is racist, but it's not the same kind of racist backed by 200 plus years of systematic oppression.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#786

Post by lupire »

bloak wrote: post #762
nonethewiser wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older. 1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse. 2. There is nothing wrong with your kids being in a majority demographic. It sounds like you're more worried about the world discriminating based off race and other traits. I suspect you agree with all of this but it's a…

> 1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse. Compare and contrast with people saying "neurodiverse" when they mean "neurodivergent". I think there is general agreement that a single person should be described as "neurodivergent" rather than "neurodiverse". Some people say the wrong word just because the two words are so similar and are happy to be corrected. On the other hand, if we're talking about other k…

"underrepresented" is pretty close to the word you need, but is a slightly miscast type.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#787

Post by lupire »

uup wrote: post #612
nonethewiser wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older. 1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse. 2. There is nothing wrong with your kids being in a majority demographic. It sounds like you're more worried about the world discriminating based off race and other traits. I suspect you agree with all of this but it's a…

A single person can be diverse relative to a group, though. Like a black woman would add diversity to a group of white men, for instance. When we talk about diversity in recruiting, usually we mean diversity of the candidate relative to the makeup of the company.

No, that person is different or divergent, not diverse. The group is diverse.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#788

Post by lupire »

nsxwolf wrote: post #436
balls187 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older. That comment implies you take for granted that your kids will get into a school, and will have a job.

What does that mean? Just about anyone can get into a school, or get a job.

You are removing words. OP was saying that they are worried that their kid would fail to reach the elite level, using standard coded words "decent" and "good".

Why are "decent" schools and "good" jobs so rare that we are competing for them against each other, instead of a standard anyone can reach with effort? Even schools! The very source of opportunity that we hope to equalize!

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#789

Post by ParetoOptimal »

nonethewiser wrote: post #704
epx wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to feel like we have a target painted on our backs with this diversity thing. It is a sentimeng generated by our reptilian brain. (It does not help that some hotheads at LinkedIn say that every black hole in the universe is blame of the white man.) But this is a feeling that must be let go. Privilege allows people to reach excellence and excellence is scarce, so no, privileged people that do their homework…

Skin color doesn't make you privileged.

Being white gives me the privilege of not being followed by security at department stores while I see my non-white friends be not so subtly watched or followed.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#790

Post by account42 »

bloak wrote: post #762
nonethewiser wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older. 1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse. 2. There is nothing wrong with your kids being in a majority demographic. It sounds like you're more worried about the world discriminating based off race and other traits. I suspect you agree with all of this but it's a…

> 1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse. Compare and contrast with people saying "neurodiverse" when they mean "neurodivergent". I think there is general agreement that a single person should be described as "neurodivergent" rather than "neurodiverse". Some people say the wrong word just because the two words are so similar and are happy to be corrected. On the other hand, if we're talking about other k…

Well yeah, calling something divergent implies that there is a "normal". For ways of thinking and personalities people are fine with calling others not normal. For races and genders that is currently very not politically correct.
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