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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

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Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#781

Post by cheriot »

ChrisLomont wrote: post #682
cheriot wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And are losing value on the property, which is the point of depreciation. The house depreciates while the land appreciates. In the US for the last 50 years has been net appreciation for most homes. > If it were so profitable, then tons of capital currently being spent on other uses (tech, medical, finance) would instead go into buying up more housing. Hedge funds have been buying houses at scale since the great rec…

>Hedge funds have been buying houses at scale since the great recession. Zillow tried that and lost over a billion dollars - I'd expect lots of those purchases are not the money makers you think they are. >Which increases faster than incomes. Not for the same size houses - the median house now is many times the size of a median house from 1950, and a few times the size of a median house from 1970. If you buy the same…

Zillow was flipping not buying to hold. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/magazine/wall-street-land...

> Not for the same size houses

Anecdotally, the price per square foot has also gone up in the places with the most jobs. To be clear, the whole context of the article is that we're talking about the (sub)urban areas that have seen substantial job growth. If zoning prevents large houses from being split then you're describing an increase in mansions while others can't afford a home.

Despite younger people moving to less prosperous regions where they can afford a home, yes, home ownership rates for younger generations have declined. Specifically, in the family and peak earning years from 30 to 50. https://ipropertymanagement.com/research/homeownership-rate-...

More clear example https://res.cloudinary.com/apartmentlist/image/fetch/f_auto,... from https://www.apartmentlist.com/research/homeownership-by-gene...

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#782

Post by cheriot »

dionidium wrote: post #780
cheriot wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that municipal governance should intentionally disadvantage "transients, students, travelers, and so on" is appalling to me. This directly feeds into wealth inequality and the cycle of poverty. I get that people will want to protect their privilege, but I have no respect for it.

I would encourage you to try to read those words without any of the baggage often implied. The reason I chose the examples, "dorm room" and "magical year in NYC," above is that those both apply directly to me. If someone in my neighborhood in NYC would have said to me, "you don't really care deeply about this place, you're just going to be here for a year or two and then settle down somewhere else," they wouldn't hav…

You're picking anecdotes where you were "less invested" to justify policies that apply to all renters.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#783

Post by dont__panic »

muffinman26 wrote: post #318
dont__panic wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people do not want to own a home I hate to go all "citation needed" on you, but I'm not sure this is true. Do I want to pay for upkeep of a property? Probably not. But since renting is basically equivalent to burning money in our economy, any responsible renter will eventually feel a pull towards ownership if only to stop the bleeding. I think we need a society where renting isn't so expensive AND owning a pro…

If by "many" GP meant "a small but noticeable percentage of the population", I think the claim is reasonable. Buying a home is a process . In additional to the standard search and short personal inspection you'd do for a rental, there's an official inspection, securing a loan, etc. It consumes a significant amount of time for a month. For someone moving every 6-12 months, spending a month or even two per year on buyi…

Good point. For those in niche situations where flexibility is king, renting will almost always make sense simply because of static purchase transaction fees. When I was in college and fresh out of college, I didn't have (tens of) thousands of dollars to float broker percentages, inspections, nor the time and know-how to navigate sales and inspection processes.

I think there's nothing wrong with renting, and for folks who just want shelter with a known cost up-front, it's a great solution. The problem is rental costs that creep up and up and up and housing policies that reward the haves (of housing) but indirectly penalize the have-nots (renters) because they miss out on massive tax writeoffs.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#784

Post by reillyse »

ChrisLomont wrote: post #762
reillyse wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to claim that the government (let's pick the US government) doesn't get involved in regulating the housing market? Do you think they don't attempt to keep the house prices from crashing ? (also known as getting more affordable). I think it's obvious that the US government is very interested in maintaining and increasing the monetary value of homes and real estate. Here are some ways they influence them…

>Do you think they don't attempt to keep the house prices from crashing ? (also known as getting more affordable). Also known as wrecking tax base for police, schools, local and state economies.... This is a terrible idea - deliberately crashing any asset class, especially one underpinning the majority of local services. Property taxes account for as much as 63% of state revenue (NH) to as little as 17% (DE and AL, b…

So yes, you agree with me.

They do regulate and influence the real estate market specifically the price of housing. And as in the first point they don’t have any interest in the price dropping. If the only way the price is allowed to change is by increasing then that’s the only way it will change.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#785

Post by frumper »

dexterdog wrote: post #779
frumper wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landlord still pays property taxes on his investment properties. It’s his income tax that is offset.

But he passes the cost of those taxes on to the renter because the renter is the one benefiting from the schools/roads/police/fire/etc that the taxes fund.

That is often true. A vacant rental still owes the taxes though. I can only say my time as a landlord I have not always covered those costs with rental income. Sometimes the property is empty or doesn't command enough income to cover all your costs.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#786

Post by Yizahi »

kindatrue wrote: post #151

I just think about this letter to the Atherton (median sold home price: $7.6M) Mayor and City Council: === Subject line: IMMENSELY AGAINST multifamily development! I am writing this letter to communicate our IMMENSE objection to the creation of multifamily overlay zones in Atherton … Please IMMEDIATELY REMOVE all multifamily overlay zoning projects from the Housing Element which will be submitted to the state in July…

Wow, just... wow...

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#787

Post by cannaceo »

sizzle wrote: post #578
cannaceo wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from a 1031 you can do what I do and take loans against the property to buy the next property. Keeps your tax basis lower. At least in LA county the appreciation is limited to 2% a year while the increase in property value has been 20%+ the last few years.

How many times can you do this until the banks will not entertain the Idea? Does this only work in a market where home prices only go up?

You can do this indefinitely with commercial real estate including multi-family dwellings. Lenders are comfortable with 50% loan-to-value. You do need to have some cash flow from the properties to service the debt. It does require the properties to either appreciate over time or for you to build up more equity in them by paying down your loan.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#788

Post by cannaceo »

sizzle wrote: post #578
cannaceo wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from a 1031 you can do what I do and take loans against the property to buy the next property. Keeps your tax basis lower. At least in LA county the appreciation is limited to 2% a year while the increase in property value has been 20%+ the last few years.

How many times can you do this until the banks will not entertain the Idea? Does this only work in a market where home prices only go up?

You can do this indefinitely with commercial real estate including multi-family dwellings. Lenders are comfortable with 50% loan-to-value. You do need to have some cash flow from the properties to service the debt. It does require the properties to either appreciate over time or for you to build up more equity in them by paying down your loan.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#789

Post by fwip »

ChrisLomont wrote: post #686
fwip wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're not trying very hard. https://rentprep.com/evictions/when-can-i-evict-a-tenant-for...

That's a list of how long until the landlord can file an eviction, not how long an eviction takes. "Thus, the eviction process can take from five weeks to three months, assuming there are no delays. If there are delays, the process can take as much as a year." [1] https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/landlord-tenant-law/how-l...

True. When the normal case is 1-3 months, and the high-percentile is "up to a year", it seems a little misleading to use the plural "years."

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#790

Post by kenned3 »

kmeisthax wrote: post #770
kenned3 wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! I love how people seem to feel they can enforce their views of how a city should be build on others. The fact of the matter is very clear.. we have so many detach houses because that is what people WANT. For some odd reason there is a subset of the population who feel entitled to dictate how OTHERS should live. These people go on and on about "increasing density" while ignoring that some don't want to live like…

You are projecting. The current state of affairs in the US is that, in most towns, detached single-family housing is the only thing you are legally allowed to build. When you buy land the local zoning board tells you what can be built on that land, and these zones are extremely fine-grained. Thus, the people who want detached houses are the ones who are dictating how others should live. There is a huge demand for den…

i love it when people make statements liek "you are projecting" yet dont fully understand them.

What it means to be projecting?

According to Karen R. Koenig, M. Ed, LCSW, projection refers to unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else. A common example is a cheating spouse who suspects their partner is being unfaithful.

I've not taken any of my views and projected them anywhere.

you simply look around, and you can find TONS of so called "Social justice warriors" demanding more public transit, more density..

Usually under some "Stop urban sprawl" mantra - who gives them the right to enforce how others want to live?

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