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FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

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Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#781

Post by the_only_law »

tylersmith wrote: post #769
the_only_law wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a lazy boring way to try to detail a thread. You're arguing something that the other people aren't even saying . Anyone with a half working brain who's gone outside in the last 20 years understands colloquial use of words.

They're saying they want to live in a more democratic place. We're saying the US isn't and won't be that place. It's an actual, incompatible disagreement on how much individual people should affect the government not just a debate about wording. Colloquial misuse of the word only sets people up for disappointment when they find out that a government they call a democracy isn't one.

You seem to think yourself the arbiter of language, when you are not:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy

This is about as useful as arguing about communism vs socialism, you may be right, in the typical HN pedant way, but all that does it make dumb threads dumber.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#782

Post by [deleted] »

okasaki wrote: post #772
Xeoncross wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another really odd reply, after looking at your comment history I can see you're very pro-china and seem to be a troll in this one area based on others exchanges people have had with you.

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#783

Post by smoldesu »

throw10920 wrote: post #733
markus_zhang wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly none of this is doable in the current version of capitalism (and in pretty much every country that is drinking from it). Corporation interests, especially those of large corporations, override pretty much everything else.

What exactly do you mean by "capitalism" here?

I think they're indicating that both Google and Apple will have sufficient motivation to weaken the security of their devices as long as there's money involved with it. With the combination of corporate interest and a lack of accountable oversight, it can be plainly assumed that all of FAANG is an equally dangerous domestic security risk.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#784

Post by lambersley »

627467 wrote: post #368
jpk wrote: post #33

Lots of folks here arguing that the focus on TikTok is unfair, given the data collection practices of domestic corps like Facebook. From a privacy point of view, this argument is well-founded, but I think it's tangential to the argument TFA is making, which is: this data collection done by a foreign government and exploited for surveillance or espionage is a national security risk. I get it. We want corps to stop hoo…

> this data collection done by a foreign government and exploited for surveillance or espionage is a national security risk. How were Snowden revelations of USG Bigtech relationship materially different from what's happening here? Maybe it was less transparent? Any "woke" person can see the cognitive dissonance here. It's all fine that you use the geopolitical rivalry argument but not if you try to paint one side of…

The 'they do it too' is fallacious. Does TikTok pose a threat? If the answer is yes, then request to remove it from app stores is justified.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#785

Post by macintux »

wcfields wrote: post #762
colinmhayes wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then maybe your country should designate American social media companies national security adversaries.

When one does that, America usually is punitive against your nation in retaliation.

Examples?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#786

Post by jmyeet »

sudosysgen wrote: post #476
jmyeet wrote: post #359

As much as the US government does questionable and bad things (and it does), the CCP is worse. The US still has at least the semblance of the rule of law. There is still some separation between corporations and the government. Corporations in China are extensions of the state and tools of foreign policy in a way they just aren't in the West. The US government can also be replaced. That's why China and the US just are…

The US has no rule of law for national security consideration in other countries. As a non US citizen the US government in practice has no due process consideration if they wish to spy on you, torture you, or kill you. Corporations are an extension of the state in this process, as we have learned thanks to Edward Snowden. They have no choice but to facilitate the use of state power on foreign nationals. As a non-Amer…

> As a non US citizen the US government in practice has no due process consideration if they wish to spy on you, torture you, or kill you.

Spy? Sort of. Generally speaking, US intelligence agencies have a lot of leeway when 1) you're not a US citizen AND 2) you're not on US soil. If either of those things isn't true then it's a different story. There are workarounds (eg outsourcing spying to allies).

Torture and kill? Huh? I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Do you mean in a war zone?

> Corporations are an extension of the state

If anything, I'd argue in the US the government is an extension of the corporations. The US government certainly acts at the behest of the capital-owning class.

> They have no choice but to facilitate the use of state power on foreign nationals.

I mean US companies are subject to US laws and that includes (as stated) pen registers, NSLs, FISA warrants, etc. Still, there's more due process here than for Chinese companies.

> If you are an American all you're saying is "only my government should spy on me".

That's not what I said at all.

What I will say is that given the choice between living in China and being subject to Chinese spying and living in the US subject to US spying I'll pick the US hands down every time.

Why? Because I can talk about US atrocities without "disappearing". I could compare the president to a cartoon character without "disappearing". The US also doesn't (currently at least) engage in ethnic cleansing and eradication through "re-education" camps (eg Tibet, Xianjiang). Nor do I have to worry about my ability to get anywhere because I said something critical of the government and took a big hit to my social credit score. And the US has no equivalent to Hong Kong's "security" laws.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#787

Post by macintux »

rightbyte wrote: post #423
Cederfjard wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment doesn't seem to understand what the parent was saying or engage with their argument at all? 1. No it's not fine that American companies are threats to privacy and so on, and it should be dealt with. 2. However TikTok is a special case in that in addition to the above, it presents a national security risk (to the Americans), so it's reasonable to treat it differently and with more urgency.

> it presents a national security risk (to the Americans) In what way. Surely there is a shutdown button to press if TikTok go rouge. Dissidents should rather use the social networks the gov. or establishment wants to ban than the one they control (e.g. FB).

A shutdown button to remove the reams of data already gathered?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#788

Post by SkyMarshal »

thetinguy wrote: post #780
tremon wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only off-base for citizens of the US. For other countries, there is no material difference between what either is doing. Except that one of them has a track record of extralegal assassinations, of course.

What? One is a democracy and one is a dictatorship.

Not only a democracy, but a constitutional republic with an independent court and military, both of which are sworn to uphold that constitution and all the human rights it enumerates.

We don't always succeed at that, but at least we have that as our society and government's guidestar, and legal and political processes for self-correcting.

The Communist Party has exactly zero of any of that, and an ideology entirely oriented around justifying getting and keeping power by any means necessary.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#789

Post by Ekaros »

remarkEon wrote: post #715
Ekaros wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On other hand Youtube manipulating what is shown is somewhat observable anyway... So it's not unique. Maybe in general we should demand absolute neutrality from these platforms. Ban any sort of promotion of certain producers or sides. Or mandate sufficient warnings covering let's say 33% of screen when such is done. Also if there is fact checking offered it should be open to any actor.

For what seems like the 1000th time in this thread, the uniqueness is not the issue . YouTube will manipulate you into watching more content, or maybe buying something. TikTik can, and perhaps already has, manipulate[d] you into believing (and then voting) for certain things. It's an extension of the Chinese state.

I'm not talking about manipulating people to watch more content. But promoting fake news from established players. Which have been proven to be politically corrupt.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#790

Post by quantum_solanum »

sudosysgen wrote: post #469
hackerlight wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not unreasonable. What I'd disagree with is if people thought a company based in a foreign liberal democracy presented a similar threat to a company based in China, which has an authoritarian government where state & corporations are largely merged and which is entangled in balance of power disputes with the US.

The US acts exactly like an authoritarian country in foreign interactions. Murder, wars of aggression, facilitating genocide, espionage, and so on. History shows that if you are not American then the US will treat you as if it is an authoritarian state.

Or if you're American and Black, gay, Indigenous, etc
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