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Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

mitadmissions.org

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Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#781

Post by lightup »

pcurve wrote: post #629
lightup wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He applied to [redacted] State, Rice, UNC, Duke, and U of MN - Twin Cities. Accepted at [redacted] State (they have a formula for everyone). He also got their highest out of state "scholarship" - which is more like a break on out of state tuition - no reciprocity with MN. No word from Duke yet but that probably won't happen either. Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimist…

U MN has acceptance rate of 70%. Your son is probably more brilliant than most people who go to U MN. The hell with them and their shitty admission process. They don't deserve him. Like others have said, he should re-apply / transfer. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but this might actually be blessing in disguise because many kids don't get to experience setback in life until too late. Yet, this one is some…

This admission statement is wrong. See source in original comment. U of MN TC accepted 20% last year and 20% this year. Kinda nuts. It's possible that the 70% number you cite is for MN State system which is like a parallel CC and university system. They are good too though.

THanks for your other comments though. Appreciated.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#783

Post by car_analogy »

rayiner wrote: post #642
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial…

The notion of a “well rounded student” who does music, art, and extra curricular activities, is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture. That is not to say that I think only test scores should matter. But the kinds of extracurriculars colleges value—in particular that they don’t value having a job or working in the farm—smacks of old money ideals.

> The notion of a “well rounded student” who does music, art, and extra curricular activities, is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture.

So are the schools that gated admissions this way.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#784

Post by lightup »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #651
lightup wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He applied to [redacted] State, Rice, UNC, Duke, and U of MN - Twin Cities. Accepted at [redacted] State (they have a formula for everyone). He also got their highest out of state "scholarship" - which is more like a break on out of state tuition - no reciprocity with MN. No word from Duke yet but that probably won't happen either. Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimist…

Complete disaster for his future? I don't think so, just a slight delay. I've had many setbacks in my life, i've known people in Asia who majorly messed up an exam they'd been preparing their entire life for, they just attempted it next year, and they did fine. If you have the brains to score a 35 on the ACT with no prep, then you really shouldn't have much problems in life if you put effort and deal with setbacks.

THanks, he reminded me tonight that he scored 35 _twice_. LOL. I kinda suggested to him he try for perfect like his best buddy. Best buddy is accepted at Ivy school (but probably will not go due to cost from what he said).

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#785

Post by chrischen »

danielheath wrote: post #673
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The notion of a "well rounded student" ... > is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture First of all, I don't know what "blue blood WASP culture" is. Explain that please. Second, there's nothing wrong with expecting students to participate in extra-curricular activities like music and art as a basis for admission. MIT is still going to evaluate those things.

Selecting for students whose parents can afford formal music, art and sport lessons is selecting for wealth. Having extra-curriculars you can document costs money and time. Poor kids are getting 'well rounded' by spending summer break at work, saving enough money to survive the school year.

I’d also like to add an anecdote: while my family wasn’t necessarily poor, I pretty much spent all my extra-curricular time doing things like coding and design, and neither of them were really in a way that was documentable. There was no “coding” club or “graphic design” club and if there was something similar that popped up in high school the physical gathering nature of most clubs was odd when applied to things like internet coding. So the clubs tended to be a waste of time more than anything, and most students participated knowingly just to pad college applications.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#786

Post by mitchdoogle »

throwawaygh wrote: post #683
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial…

> and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live How many DFW public schools have cricket or kabaddi teams? How many bands and choirs play primarily non-European music? Are you sure that these students are one dimensional boring test-takers with absolutely no interest in being part of their community? Could it possibly be that many are v…

Playing organized pickup, or participating/organizing activities for your immigrant community are the same as extra curricular activities. They do prove that a student is not just one dimensional test taker

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#788

Post by lightup »

ausbah wrote: post #609
lightup wrote: post #553

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall. His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minn…

definitely not over. kicking ass in community college for a year or two and transferring to a much better school with scholarship is a great option for anyone

Yes, I agree 100%. Have hired several people from hands on CC here in MN.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#789

Post by johnnyanmac »

blip54321 wrote: post #743
johnnyanmac wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to be brutally honest, because other people in industry have the stamp of "MIT". There will just be natural bias when hearing that a prospective candidate attended your alma mata where you know (in your own personal experience) that the school runs you through the ringer. Nothing more relatable than saying "Hey is Professor Bob still teaching Astro 401? his tests were brutal " and instantly understanding…

My question was a little bit deeper. I understand why we have elite schools. Harvard's an easy one. Rich and powerful people look smart by association with smart people. Smart people gain access to powerful social networks. My question was why this was a good idea for society. MIT was funded through federal grants, financial aid, and philanthropic donations. It's a 501(c)3. If it's bad for the world, we ought to have…

I mean, all education does (and should) make use of state and federal funding to provide an education, arguably they don't give enough for quality education in grade school.

And I don't think there's much of a solution to the conundrum of "rich people donate to the rich places and attract more rich people". In all the various other ways billionaires avoid taxes and donate to shady organizations/"charities", it's hard to really knock on them giving money to a place where (in SOME capacity) individuals past their immediate community benefit. It can certainly be better utilized, but I don't have a big fuss with it in the grand scheme of things.

Financial aid is certainly a bubble soon to burst, but that's an issue that expands nationwide, not just in the elite schools.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#790

Post by sn41 »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #593
sparrc wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agreed. I could also buy a test prep book on amazon plus get a few others from the school and public libraries for a grand total of $15 spent on test prep. That's a lot cheaper than dedicating my working summer to smarmy volunteer/extra-curricular projects.

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial…

Your take is very strange, and does not correspond to the Indian immigrant experience from what I have seen. I spent 10 years in the US, and the really weird part is how stridently Indian parents would push their kids to train in Indian culture - particularly classical dance like Bharatanatyam and Carnatic classical. Of course, since Westerners have hardly even heard about these cultural forms, these do not even exist as "extra-curriculars" for standard university admission boards.

I found the emphasis on Indian cultural roots so disturbing that I had to weasel out of conversations by saying "I don't know anything about classical dance, I am mostly interested in science-fiction". It is easier to have your own way as an Indian middle-class student in India than as second generation Indians in the US.

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