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Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#781
As an Atheist, I recently started reading religious texts of all Abrahamic religions(Judaism , Islam and Christianity) as well as Dharmic ones such as Buddhism. Why? Because I have always been curious about religion yet always discarded it as "bronze age superstition" as Christopher Hitchens would describe it..

Thanks to this journey, I ended up meeting a lot of great people in the community. Without exception, everyone welcomed me as an outsider and politely answered all my questions. I have been to mosques, synagogues and churches during hours of prayers and other events to observe and learn and so my network has grown by a decent size which I'm grateful of.

I think overall the result has been a net positive in my life and has broadened my understanding of history, philosophy and art. I haven't necessarily "settled" in a particular camp but I no longer brush off the idea of worshiping a God. I think one can make the distinction between _radical_ religious dogma and having a holy house of worship.

Having done lots of introspection over the past year, I don't think subscribing to Atheism is healthy because in your happiest moments or your darkest moments of despair, you have no spiritual basis to fall back on, you have no way structure way of burying the dead or celebrating the joining of a couple in a ceremonial way. Further, all Atheists still celebrate Christmas, or Easter , all of which are religious holidays and are completely meaningless to them which is ironic..

As an Atheist you also have to make up your "subjective" morality (and who is to say one's sense of moral is superior to another? there are no basis for this) which is again ironically borrowed from religious teachings. Finally Atheism fails to answer the deepest questions we have which is Why is there something instead or nothing and why are we here?

Thus considering the above, I can confidently say that my views on spiritually and religion has shifted significantly.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#782

I took the long, long road to end up back where I started: Mere Christianity. I've felt the presence of God in the world my whole life, but the way the right wing media lied to me about global warming and other things had me re-evaluate what else I could be misinformed about, so I kept and open mind and studied a ton of religions including: Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Daoism, Sikhism, Buddhism, and some light reading o…

Mind if I'll drop an email? It resonated.

Of course. I'm away from email tonight, but I'll be back online tomorrow. Please reach out.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#784
post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the idea of original sin is about that humans, by their very nature and in their being are confronted with evil. This is the kind of poetic language behind which people hide confusion so that they can still believe in this. I did the same. I understand the reflexive "let's not think about this too much in case we stop believing". What does it actually mean to be "confronted with evil" and why is it a problem r…

Because dirt exists all over the world all clothes are in need of washing at some point (or not worn I suppose). Confronting sin, temptation, immorality whether you want to look at it from a religious perspective or secular, is part of the human condition. No human can live a life and not be confronted with jealousy, anger, greed, pride or if you don't like the Christian undertones fill in whatever you think of as a…

> Because dirt exists all over the world all clothes are in need of washing at some point

Some aren't. And certainly washing one cloth because other is dirty or can get dirty doesn't make sense. So how does it make sense when it comes to sins?

> We all confront the same questions.

Meaningless poetic language again. Some of us don't. And even assuming that we all do - we also confront low temperatures and yet Christ didn't burn on cross to heat us all for eternity. And even if he did burn he would only heat the people near him at the time. How does this future-proof abstract-idea-solving suicide work, exactly? Doesn't seem to work that well if we still "confront evil".

The whole point of original sin in Catholicism isn't that we have to confront evil. It's just an excuse for why we need Jesus and baptism.

> As he says, the theodicy question

This isn't theodicy. I'm not asking why is there evil. I'm asking why do we all need Christ to die for us and why do we need baptism if personal sins aren't guaranteed and the original sin is just the capability to sin or possibility of encountering sin.

I don't wash the idea of clothes because some real clothes can possibly get dirty later.

What the original sin actually is in Catholicism is not some capability - it's an abstract idea that makes it impossible for specific people to get to heaven without Christ dying for them. And it makes no damn sense.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Name one war, that has no religion involved. US Revolutionary War War of 1812 US Civil War Spanish American War WWI WWII Korean War Vietnam War GWI GWII WoT Nearly all of them really. Wars are fought over resources and pride of leaders. Sometimes religion can be used as a recruiting tool, but the war isn't really about religion. You can argue that since people who fight in wars have religious beliefs that religion i…

> WoT If you mean the war between the US on one side and al-Qaeda and various other Islamist groups on the other, that’s…a pretty bad exampe of a war that doesn’t involve religion. > Korean War > Vietnam War The US’s global war on Communism, during and as a symbol of which it added religious languge to the pledge of allegiance and replaced its diversity-endorsing de facto model with a religious official motto is, whi…

>If you mean the war between the US on one side and al-Qaeda and various other Islamist groups on the other, that’s…a pretty bad example of a war that doesn’t involve religion.

Ya I included that intentionally because it was the only one I could think of that was related to religion in anything I would consider close to meaningful.

It really depends on how loosely you want to define "involve," like I said, wars involve sticks and shoes because everyone uses them. Nearly everything involves language does that means all wars involve language? I guess so in a pedantic sense, but still, so what? Wars don't involve language in any meaningful way other than a means of communication. I would argue because of that, language is far more important than any semblance of religion in all of the wars I listed.

What's the point of your or the OP's argument? Following the definition of "involve," anything involves religion, even an atheist walking down the sidewalk, because the sidewalk was funded by at least one person who happens to be religious. Not overly meaningful.

Here's OBL's "Letter To America," where he states his reasons for his attacks.

In bin Laden's November 2002 "Letter to America",[3][4] he said that al-Qaeda's motives for the attacks included Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, support for Israel in Lebanon, the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia,[4][5][6] US support of Israel,[7][8] and sanctions against Iraq.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_a...

I mean I guess if you really wanted to make a connection to religion you could, but in the statement he mentions Israel, not Judaism, so it would be a stretch in my mind. The only connection to religion is the term "Muslims," and those citations are always followed by "in" a country. Hell, even the crusades weren't fought over religion, they were fought over resources and power, the church just used religion to get free cannon fodder. Of course Bush, in his infinite wisdom called the WoT a "crusade," which again I guess "involves" religion in that it was mentioned in a speech, but again, not in an overly meaningful way.

What I think the OP was trying to say, perhaps I'm wrong, is that religion is bad and as an example, all wars involve religion. If that's the case, I disagree with the premise.

All wars involve dirt therefore dirt is bad. Prophetic!

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#786
post #70

As a religious Jew, I (am obligated by my religion to) pray three times a day, morning, noon and evening. The longest is the morning prayer, 45 minutes approximately. The prayers are a mix of gratitude, humility and supplication.

45 minutes? That's a long shachrit.

Normal for Sephardic Shacharit

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#787
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't understand it, how do you know it's natural? Not saying it has to be supernatural, just that if you think it's not yet understood, being sure it's not supernatural seems like unfounded confidence.

I think you've got it backwards. The default assumption is that only the natural world exists. If something is not understood, the assumption should be that it has natural causes. A supernatural cause would imply the existence of something outside of natural causes, and to assert that that something exists without being able to demonstrate it is where the unfounded confidence lies.

My point is not that the default assumption should be either the supernatural or the natural, but that perhaps actual agnosticism is the humble stance.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had been taught I could simply confess whatever and it would be forgiven I still remember the day at Sunday school when we had to confess. I was a good kid. I had absolutely no idea what to confess. I consulted my Mom who told me to "make something up". And thus my first sin, that I can remember, was lying to the priest.

In hindsight, it was definitely the concept of original sin that got my young mind spinning, not understanding how for example a newborn baby could be innately sinful. All downhill after that.

> In hindsight, it was definitely the concept of original sin that got my young mind spinning, not understanding how for example a newborn baby could be innately sinful.

I have no qualms believing that. Watching a young child empirically discover the theory of mind, and then progress to deceit without being taught is almost miraculous. Humans are inherently selfish and short-sighted, a huge part of parenting is spent on tempering these instincts.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#789
post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think pointing out flaws in other people's reasoning is perfectly valid. Frankly my knee-jerk reaction on some of the above comments was to start picking apart their reasoning and thinking of ways to explain why they're wrong. I was gearing up to drop some bombs. I have done this a lot. The internet is full of it. And it sucks. There's so much of "I'm just pointing out the flaws in other people's reasoning". It's…

Different people want different things. I hate when people feel that harsh criticism isn't nice. It starts to make everything feel like fluffy bullshit. I wish HN was way, way harsher with its commentary. I understand your perspective and realize I'm outnumbered here, but basically we fundamentally disagree (and that's okay!). I'd rather see more arguments about controversial topics from people with differing perspec…

The older I get, the more I realize that endless nitpicking just sucks the joy out of life. 25 years online and I forget what life was like before every thought and attitude I or anyone ever had was raked over the coals. Constant peanut gallery. It's a chilling effect that you can't even measure. Endless criticism doesn't make everything better. It just puts everyone on edge, and it's absolutely asymmetric between those who want "fluffy bullshit" or whatever and people who can't for the life of them keep their commentary to themselves. I regret my own arguing more and more; I never feel better afterwards. Hell, I don't even like bringing this up because we gotta discuss it to death.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I encountered history, documents, and truths about the religion that were never presented to me I encountered something like this but wasn't able to find it since; I think it was called something like the "blue document" or the "blue papers"; basically a very intelligent Mormon came up with a document with all of his very reasonable but quite heretical questions, and it caused quite a stir. Would love to track it d…

https://cesletter.org is probably what you are thinking about.

ah, I think that is it! https://cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf

I especially love the first quote in it (which I remember being a part of it):

“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” - President J. Reuben Clark

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