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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#781
I wish Google had not done this sort of thing.

I am not an anti-vaxxer but I think we should not silence those who question vaccines, their studies and their effectiveness. By banning vaccine criticism in public domain we essentially ensure that only FDA is responsible for calling a vaccine fake, once they approve we all have to fall in line and not be skeptical about them. This gives too much power to FDA (hence a higher possibility of corruption) and a free pass to pharma companies who might push more and more ineffective vaccines with the help of their friends in FDA and CDC.

Google is pretty good at content recommendation and I am sure if they want they can solve this problem much better by identifying diversity in the vaccine criticism and accordingly give it exposure.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#782
post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

> Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Social networks seem to be unable to optimize for anything other than "engagement," which inevitably leads to amplifying compelling but technically incorrect and outright dangerous content. The thing to remember is that Yo…

I would argue it's much, much, worse than what you're saying. I mean this part:

> Google will never do it, because it would 1) require paying humans to do work, which is expensive, and 2) it wouldn't drive engagement and generate clicks.

Every regular business out there needs support. In the form of pre-sales, sales, post-sales, actual support folks, etc.

Google's entire business model is predicated on there being no meaningful human support.

If they're forced to implement the level of support their worldwide, what-they-consider-top-notch operation would actually require, their business model goes bust.

Ok, I'm probably exaggerating, but their profit margins would go down from ~25% to probably something like 5%.

They will >, ever do it, unless someone puts a legal gun to their head.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#783

>YouTube is banning anti-forced Sars COVID2 mRNA drug activists and blocking all anti-forced Sars COVID2 mRNA drug content FTFWaPo I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I'm happy to have my measles, mumps, rubella, and other vaccines. I'm looking forward to getting the new HPV vaccine (gardasil) now that they've started recommending it for adults and you can actually get your doctor to give it to you (a couple years ago they would…

> That's incredibly disingenuous. Because this drug is fundamentally different from what a vaccine is.

What is a vaccine in your eyes? Because the definition (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine) is:

> a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease

It's something that's injected to stimulate the body's immune response.

It doesn't to be through using a weakened version of the virus as we've been doing so far. That's just the mechanism we had.

A diesel powered train is still a train, even if the original trains were steam powered.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#784

Enough. This sort of large-scale systematic suppression of human rights (in this case the right to the free exchange of ideas) is fundamentally evil and needs to be stopped. That it's "for a good cause" is no excuse. Neither is the fact that the perpetrator of these mass-scale human rights violations is a corporate oligopoly rather than a government, nor that the target of these abuses is "them" rather than "us". All…

YouTube is a private enterprise. They have 100% the right to control what goes on their site. Would you be mad if a fishing forum banned non-fishing posts? Is that a large-scale systematic suppression of human rights?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#786
post #275
post #57

People don't see what the actual problem here is - perhaps because they don't want to see. What is happening is very much the transformation from an open society to one where freedom of speech is limited and certain other individual rights are stripped away. Perhaps not de jure, but de facto. And sure, one might argue that it's for a good cause (even though it's a complex topic). However, the fact is that as this is…

Do you also feel it’s wrong of YouTube to not allow porn? Feels like people are laser focused on anti vax content due to the political nature of it, while not really caring about all the other moderation they already do.

They need to ban all references to the vaccine, and then your analogy to porn would hold, and I would be fine with it.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#787

>YouTube is banning anti-forced Sars COVID2 mRNA drug activists and blocking all anti-forced Sars COVID2 mRNA drug content FTFWaPo I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I'm happy to have my measles, mumps, rubella, and other vaccines. I'm looking forward to getting the new HPV vaccine (gardasil) now that they've started recommending it for adults and you can actually get your doctor to give it to you (a couple years ago they would…

The fundamentals are the same. It's something with the relevant spike protein that your immune system can identify, but without actually being the virus that causes the disease

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#788
post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

I believe that tradeoffs between individual freedom and the common good are necessary. So I am biased in favour of intervening when it's necessary.

But it's very hard to see how these social network interventions are well thought out and have considered all the possible side effects, many of which are mentioned in other comments. I suppose they're tracking the data and will change course if this doesn't work how they expected..

Still, rather than being a case of deplatforming harmful speech, these look like amputations of entire conversations from the service, maybe to take the spotlight off the degenerate nature of Youtube as a human communication platform.

It's clear that the ability of bad characters to screw up an entire system, as you say, is at least partially enabled by Youtube's incentives, and the features those lead to (the old radicalization = engagement fiasco for example). A better way to combat disinformation would be to understand how Youtube often brings the worst out of its viewers, and to fix that. But it's not clear who has the incentive or the obligation to do it.

The alternative is to move the conversation to other types of social networks, with other incentives. But that seems even harder.

What is clear to me is that having most of the world get their news from a service that algorithmically (I think, it's unclear from the article) bans a fully vaccinated, pro-vaccine M.D. for suggesting people who have been infected have immunity (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28693407), to give an example, is not ideal. If they choose to do this instead of tackling the problems in their recommendation system, which rewards disinformation and other harmful types of content in all sorts of topics, not just vaccines, then it's even worse.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#789
post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

> Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Social networks seem to be unable to optimize for anything other than "engagement," which inevitably leads to amplifying compelling but technically incorrect and outright dangerous content. The thing to remember is that Yo…

You assign this to social media, but it's is seemingly true of politics as well. (Reference vaccines in 2016 GOP Primary debate about vaccines)

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#790
post #693

I was hesitant for a while and the massive censorship was part of it. I got vaccinated in May and have convinced others to get the shot since the side effects, while existent, appear to be minor compared to the reduction in harmful symptoms. Talking to my doctor is what did it for me. He cleared up most of my concerns and pressed me that my remaining concerns were too nebulous to be useful. If he just said "shut up a…

Hey, if you want to die, go for it. It's your freedom.

Normally I would agree, but right now if I get in a serious car accident there is a decent chance there won't be an ICU available at my nearest hospital because they're all full of COVID patients.

I stop tolerating your idiocy once it's consequences begin to affect me.

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