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Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

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Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#781

Post by beerandt »

foldr wrote: post #779
beerandt wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a plausible enough mistake to have happened before. Which to me, is good enough reason to not outright dismiss it as "obviously false". Some Polio vaccines were contaminated with SV40 for years, and it does, in fact, alter human DNA. For COVID-19, there have been at least 2 major cases of live virus vaccine contamination and recall. In the case of the Sputnik vaccine in Brazil and South Africa, there are claims…

The Polio/SV40 thing is itself an antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense). https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/another-antivaccine-zombie-...

>antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense

>>polio vaccine administered from 1955–1963 was contaminated with simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. There have been many questions as to the effects on people who received the contaminated vaccine. SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, but researchers have not conclusively established whether or not it could cause cancer in humans. Studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955–1963 provide evidence of no increased cancer risk.

>>However, because these epidemiologic studies are sufficiently flawed, the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine caused cancer. In light of the biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers, the committee recommends continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221112/

That sounds like a load of nonsense?

>sciencebasedmedicine dot org

>> This one popped up at that online repository of all things quackery, NaturalNews.com

lol, pot, meet kettle.

Why can't you trust the science?

Simian virus 40 DNA sequences in human brain and bone tumours

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9776221/

Sequence analyses of human tumor-associated SV40 DNAs and SV40 viral isolates from monkeys and humans

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9584955/

Human cytomegalovirus major immediate early gene product can induce SV40 DNA replication in human embryonic lung cells

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2173262/

Phylogenetic analysis of polyomavirus simian virus 40 from monkeys and humans reveals genetic variation

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15308725/

SV40 DNA in human osteosarcomas shows sequence variation among T-antigen genes

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9311596/

Natural simian virus 40 strains are present in human choroid plexus and ependymoma tumors

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7571441/

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#782

Post by foldr »

beerandt wrote: post #781
foldr wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Polio/SV40 thing is itself an antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense). https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/another-antivaccine-zombie-...

>antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense >>polio vaccine administered from 1955–1963 was contaminated with simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. There…

> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221112/

> That sounds like a load of nonsense?

"Based on these limitations, the committee concludes that the evidence is inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship between SV40-containing polio vaccines and cancer."

There is literally no reason to bring this up in relation to COVID vaccines. First, this was a contamination issue with polio vaccines between 1955 and 1961, long since fixed (and unlikely to happen again, as it is now much easier to detect this kind of contamination). Second, there has never been any good evidence that the 'contaminated' vaccines ever did anyone any harm.

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#783

Post by titzer »

beerandt wrote: post #668
titzer wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when they spout obviously false, easily-checkable things like "it alters your DNA" that are clearly intended to scare people.

It's a plausible enough mistake to have happened before. Which to me, is good enough reason to not outright dismiss it as "obviously false". Some Polio vaccines were contaminated with SV40 for years, and it does, in fact, alter human DNA. For COVID-19, there have been at least 2 major cases of live virus vaccine contamination and recall. In the case of the Sputnik vaccine in Brazil and South Africa, there are claims…

> Some Polio vaccines were contaminated with SV40 for years

Right, and the Harvard Mark II had a moth that caused it to malfunction, therefore we can't trust the Apple M1.

This is the level of reasoning that anti-vaxers have sunk to. It's deliberate ignorance and sophistry.

Anti-vaxers aren't "asking questions". They aren't curious about actual reality. They are very confused people who want to maintain a simplistic (maybe naturalistic, who knows?) worldview and are increasingly twisted in knots and therefore filled with cognitive dissonance.

I personally don't like hunting down morons, but when they step on stage and refuse to yield, the should absolutely be mocked, shamed, and embarrassed, maybe even more so that they risk the health and safety of others with their idiocy. They didn't reason themselves into their positions, so I see no reason why we should try to reason them out.

Done.

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#784

Post by thehappypm »

jimt1234 wrote: post #274
indy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some episodes are no longer available, as if Spotify wants everyone to forget that they even exist. Episodes featuring Milo Yiannopoulos, Alex Jones etc. In other words, guests that offend the progressive attitudes of Silicon Valley

Rejecting people that promote the "Sandy Hook was fake!" conspiracy theory and even harassing the parents of murdered children isn't a way to avoid offending the "progressive attitudes of Silicon Valley". It's just common decency. ... Can we at least set the bar at that level -- that we _don't_ harass the parents of murdered children for clicks?

I, for one, prefer free speech to deplatforming. Who gets to say what’s right or wrong — you?

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#785

Post by thehappypm »

pjc50 wrote: post #324
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interviewing influential figures is important.

Interviewing libelous crackpots gives them influence. Without interviews, they're seldom influential.

This is the exact opposite of what’s happening.

Because there’s so little cross pollination today everyone lives in a bubble. If your Facebook is full of right-wing stuff, you only watch Fox News and only listen to Larry Elder, you’ve got an echo chamber, breeding ground for radicalization.

Having a wide variety of guests actually fights that. You listen to Bernie Sanders, then Alex Jones, then Ben Shapiro, then Edward Snowden. Rogan breaks the echo chamber. People who might only listen to Alex Jones have a chance at listening to Bernie.

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#786

Post by raisedbyninjas »

ineptech wrote: post #673
jimt1234 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rejecting people that promote the "Sandy Hook was fake!" conspiracy theory and even harassing the parents of murdered children isn't a way to avoid offending the "progressive attitudes of Silicon Valley". It's just common decency. ... Can we at least set the bar at that level -- that we _don't_ harass the parents of murdered children for clicks?

"We must remove that stuff because those ideas are dangerous/offensive, and if you disagree with removing it then you must agree with that filth!" is extremely helpful to the sorts of people who do edgy stuff to attract attention and then try to memoryhole it once they get a big audience. I think the truth is the opposite: there are no dangerous ideas. "Sandy Hook was fake!" is stupid and wrong, but the way to defeat…

>Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

This quip implies two things.

1. Is that all publicity is equivalent. Rogan is no James Randi. He's much more likely to nod along with anything a guest says than debunk it. His podcast is entertainment, not a crucible for the truth.

2. Is that every time we broadcast nonsense that fewer people believe it and society as a whole becomes wiser. If this were true, then when the ex-President talked about drinking bleach you'd expect bleach ingestion calls to 911 to decrease. In reality they increased at least on a short timescale. On a long enough timescale, maybe the anti vaccination population will fall below the level it was when Dr. Wakefield published his infamous anti vaccination paper. Given the last few decades of suffering, I'd guess there are better ways to educate the public.

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#787

Post by ireland352 »

The transition over to the Spotify platform was a decrease in user experience.

Downgrade with video integration. Downgrade with search ability on audio. Buggy resume feature for both AV.

I get why he did it. YouTube was doing some weird speech shit at the height of Trump and COVID. It's wasn't like the minions at Spotify didn't try. Seems like the higher ups at Spotify is giving Joe more freedom.

I definitely consume less of Rogan's podcasts since the switch. But I do seek him out whenever a clip on YouTube pops up and strikes my interest.

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#788

Post by dntrkv »

supperburg wrote: post #742
dntrkv wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem with misinformation nowadays. Everything is "backed by studies." The problem is, the same study can be interpreted to support two opposing views. Hell, I'm sure if this Saladino guy just completely made up a study and presented it as fact, the vast majority of the users will never bother to check if that study even exists, let alone verify the claims. Most listeners are just there to reaffirm thei…

Well Paul saladino doesn’t do that. Try carnivore for 30 days and tell everyone how wrong I am

I was commenting on the state of public debate, not his specific claims. I have no idea the accuracy of his claims. I do know that in most cases, such narrow solutions can't be applied to the population at large.

As far as trying it, I have no need. I eat a balanced diet and I feel, and look, great. Glad it worked for you, but I've heard the same about dozens of other diets.

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#789

Post by mackrevinack »

lobocinza wrote: post #730
josephg wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m a paying spotify customer and I hate this. And I also hate that the spotify client seamlessly mixes podcasts with music in its recommendations. It’s like a PM somewhere at spotify was offered a cash bonus based on how many podcast listens happen, and they decided that making the app trick people into playing podcasts was a profitable idea. It breaks trust, and makes the spotify app feel adversarial. Like I…

I went back to the good ol' TPB. I can count on one hand the artists that I really enjoy listening nowadays and there are better ways to support then.

ive come to the same conclusion lately; that i mostly listen to a handful of artists on repeat 80% of the time. i used to think that i couldnt afford to buy all the music i listen to, but looking at what i have paid spotify over the last 10 years i dont think that anymore. im slowly buying all my favourite stuff where i can and all probably cancel spotify soon and just put up with the annoying ads when i listen to discover weekly on a monday

Re: Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence

#790

Post by dntrkv »

jollybean wrote: post #619
dntrkv wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's Joe's classic defense. He's part of the "Intellectual Dark Web" (lol...) and he tries to have serious discussions and opinions on important matters. But as soon as someone points out how stupid and misleading some of his takes are, he falls back on the "I'm just a comedian" excuse. Like someone else pointed out, Bill Burr is exactly what you describe. He's a comedian that discusses these topics but never…

It's fair that the 'just a comedian' excuse should not work - but - it's fair to say 'he's just an podcaster with discussions of varying seriousness mostly for the purposes of entertainment'. The overwhelming majority of his content is along those lines, to the point wherein you really have to scrape to find scare quotes. I mean, it's easy to Google because of supposed controversy, but really disagreeable stuff would…

> but - it's fair to say 'he's just an podcaster with discussions of varying seriousness mostly for the purposes of entertainment'.

I think that would be fair, if he didn't constantly insert himself into these culture battles and debates we are having as a society. If he just hosted guests to get their perspective, that would be one thing. But he actively pushes his own ideas. He's established himself as not only a source of news, but also a "voice of reason" for many of his followers.

Saying that he gets a pass because he's just there for entertainment is a cop-out. That's the same excuse Fox News uses for their "opinion" segments (most of what they air).

I also think you might be underestimating how many people base their opinions off of Joe.

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