FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine • Hacker News Board

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#781

Post by fluidcruft » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #761

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone. I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when…

When I got mine, everyone was being given a paper with instructions showing how to sign up for the CDC symptom tracker. It was pretty easy and they would text you every day and ask you about symptoms etc. Eventually it tapered to weekly. After the second shot you updated that and it started asking you daily again. I got a prompt a few weeks ago (multiple months after second shot).

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#782

Post by yonaguska » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

enragedcacti wrote: post #682

niij wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it" "The voluntary phase is over" - Bill de Blasio https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/03/new-york-c...

For more context of that quote: > The Mayor will also be initiating a “Key to NYC Pass,” which is like the Covid-19 passport talked about a few months ago. It's a carrot-and-stick approach, as people will be required to show that they are vaccinated if they want to go to restaurants, gyms and other events. No vaccinations, no entrance. “If you want to participate in society fully, you’ve got to get vaccinated,” de Bl…

> entirely optional events and locations

Covid is a disease that overwhelmingly targets the obese.

But you can't go to a gym.

Do you consider working out an "optional" endeavor?

Not only is it essential to beating covid, but, working out keeps people sane. More young people have died from increased alcohol abuse, suicide, and drug overdoses than Covid. This all coincides with the insane push to de-humanize humans. We are social creatures. We are active creatures. For the past year and a half we have been denied these human needs. What is optional to you, is essential to others.

Personally, I don't care too much about losing the prospect of eating out, or hanging out in a bar. For others, especially young people seeing their entire social prospects evaporate before their eyes- this is life ending. For me, working out keeps me sane and not suicidal. I don't have the luxury of a home gym.

I chose to continue working out during the pandemic, training at "secret" gyms. For my health and my sanity.

All my other friends in my age group have put on weight and are more unhealthy than they've ever been. How does this help fight the pandemic?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#783

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

jpollock wrote: post #502

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days I saw some conspiracy theory that said this weeks ago and just shook my head at how ridiculous that would be. At least it seemed like a conspiracy theory because my view of control group was apparently something else. Emergency use authorization, for a vaccine that was never tested on humans, and both Pfizer and Moderna eliminated the control groups? What the hell!…

Once you have evidence the treatment works, it becomes unethical to not offer it to the control group. This happens in a lot of medical trials. In this specific situation, they would have been condemning through a choice to not treat, a fraction of the control group to die.

> Once you have evidence the treatment works

That doesn’t actually seem right though. You have control groups at least through all phases of trials to make sure “the treatment works”. That’s literally the point of the control.

Especially now that we know the vaccines don’t completely work to stop infection or prevent symptoms or spread.

I’m all for the vaccines, but it seems crazy that they didn’t even wait until phase3 was over for a new type that has never been tested on humans before.

If the argument is “the control petiole were at risk”, they should have been told their vaccine was placebo and ask for volunteers to remain in control, seems like flat out offering them real shot defeats the point, doesn’t it?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#784

Post by skocznymroczny » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #2

My biggest concern now is around seeing those who hedged their willingness to get the vaccine on its approval instead find a new reason not to get it. So with that in mind, I'm much more keen on seeing how employers will decide on vaccination mandates now that at least one vaccine is fully approved. Any news yet on whether any more employers are likely implementing mandates (if they haven't already this morning) base…

Why are you so obsessed with forcing vaccinations on people? Can't you just get vaccinated and enjoy your perceived safety?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#785

Post by gfodor » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #47

Maxburn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are, all sorts of "freedoms" hinge on it now.

I can't work in certain jobs without a security clearance. The government is not forcing me to get a security clearance.

If the government said that unvaccinated individuals were not allowed to purchase food, would you consider that OK, because they're not forcing you to stop eating?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#786

Post by yupper32 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #746

yupper32 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it, has turned me against the booster. You desperately need to take a step back and look at yourself and how you evaluate things. You decided to go against the booster because of your feelings, not because of science. You want government decisions to be guided by science, and yet you are very clearly anti-science with your decision making. > To many of you h…

Please don't cross into personal attack on HN, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It's against the rules here and only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It was more of a plea than an attack, but I can see why it seemed that way. I'd edit it if I could.

And since you're here, why aren't you doing more to [flag/demote/whatever] content where people are saying that Covid booster shots and their requirements are nothing more than "petty tyrants wanting to control what others do."? Surely that's worse than a small attack on the person saying it?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#787

Post by Pyramus » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #311

Pyramus wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what you mean by that? We already know Covid can cause autoimmune issues in some patients, so are you saying the effect you describe is just a subset of these, or different?

It's it's that there are known and unknown/suspected risks with both actions. We know that some vaccine recipients develop Graves disease. Some autoimmune diseases take years to develop. So we have risks on both sides, but there's not a lot of information about how common those risks are, especially for longer term effects. So all I'm saying is that the value proposition for an individual is based on the risks associ…

I understand that both Covid/vaccines might have unknown unknowns and I also get the disproportional importance of long-term effects.

I don't fully understand what you mean by "the data quality doesn't allow for that level of sensitivity" - we have already had two instances where very rare side effects of Covid vaccines were recognised - blood clotting for AZ and myocarditis for Biontech.

You wrote, and that's what my question was hinting at:

> "one could question the potential for autoimmune conditions due to the way the mRNA vaccine works"

What do you mean by that? What is specific about the mRNA mechanism that could lead to autoimmune issues?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#788

Post by walterbell » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #761

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone. I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when…

At this point, a practical course of action would be to ignore dialectical pro/con arguments from paid and unpaid influencers on both sides, along with conflicted institutions that even on their best day cannot keep up with the pace of modern society.

Can we create an open-source tool that supplements the much-criticized VAERS, which is at least government (i.e. taxpayer) funded, regulated and provides open data for developers? Use standard analytics to extract the most common side effects, then start collecting crowdsourced data not only on side effects, but most importantly, on TREATMENTS and MITIGATIONS for those, especially the mild-but-life-affecting ones that don't justify R&D with future billion-dollar revenue streams.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#789

Post by astura » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #8

eganist wrote: post #2

My biggest concern now is around seeing those who hedged their willingness to get the vaccine on its approval instead find a new reason not to get it. So with that in mind, I'm much more keen on seeing how employers will decide on vaccination mandates now that at least one vaccine is fully approved. Any news yet on whether any more employers are likely implementing mandates (if they haven't already this morning) base…

"...instead find a new reason not to get it." Or continue an existing reason: "Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."

No medical intervention is entirely without risk - the risk must be taken in context

1) Risk of potential negative long-term health outcomes from COVID-19 vaccine.

2) Risk of potential negative health outcomes (long and short term) from COVID-19 infection.

As well as

3) Risk of potential negative non-health outcomes from COVID-19 infection (social and economic, risk of infecting others, risk of overrunning ICUs)

With a proper risk analysis vaccine 100% wins for the vast majority of people and it's not even close.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#790

Post by chipotle_coyote » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

criticaltinker wrote: post #618

bmarquez wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, if he fails to say that he risks getting downvoted, flagged, or labeled as a conspiracy theorist. This is not limited to the medical field, I was once downvoted on an HN comment until I edited it to state that I wasn't supporting Trump, because people were reading it that way.

Yes this dynamic is caused by people reflexively downvoting and flagging posts which suggest facts or ideas that do not match their own opinion and cause them cognitive dissonance. Prefacing comments with vaccination status is how people have started mitigating those ad hominem fueled reactions.

Maybe in a perfect world we wouldn't have to occasionally preface comments with "I don't actually believe the Illuminati are using mind control lasers on us, but...", but if we live in a world where people who actually believe that tend to say things that sound like what we're about to say, is it really an unreasonable disclaimer?