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Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

781–790 of 1001 posts

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#781
post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say evaluate the actual target audience for this conversation, and choose to not engage an audience that clearly has no interest in anything other than what amounts to tribal warfare. And that includes the president smearing every source of criticism as "FAKE NEWS!" He exactly represents those who voted for him: ignorant, fearful, angry, reactionary, conspiracy theorists, suspicious and vindictive. There is no po…

You do realize this sort of behavior doesn't grow in a vacuum right? In a relationship it takes two to tango, unless dealing with someone mentally ill. To claim that say 10 million voters who hold resentment against the left for what they perceive as hostile bias are all mentally ill is grossly unfair. Conservative resentment against what they perceive as liberal intolerance has been going on since at least the early…

I agree with the premise that there is an insufficiently mature dialog, and engagement across the political spectrum.

But there's been, provably more dismissiveness and ensuing divisiveness within the conservative movement, which is where "Republicans eat their own" came frome. The explicit targeting by far right conservatives to destroy moderate Republicans in elections is not something that is at all common in the Democratic party. It was refined to great success by the Tea Party movement.

Smug liberalism is not at all the same kind of nefarious strategy the far right has used. Smug liberalism is a naive position that if only conservatives had the facts, they'd become liberals/progressives/Democrats or at the very least revert back to being moderate Republicans. It isn't intended to piss people off, even though that has been the outcome.

The political landscape is sufficiently damaged now that there is likely a significant and intractable minority who believe in a different reality where liberals are out to get them; that corporations and billionaires are out to screw them by hiring "illegals" (except for Trump's hand selected billionaires, they're the good ones); and that import tariffs are paid by foreigners. Damaged by the likes of Newsmax, Infowars, and Breitbart (previously run by now Chief Strategist and Senior Counselor to the U.S. president) are all far right sites trafficking in varying degrees of mistruth. These are not policy disputes, these are disputes over facts.

I do not think there is any fixable relationship when two sides are disagreeing on world view: how the world works, how it should work. They are mutually incompatible right now, and the thing to be negotiating is the outcome of losing arguments, which hopefully remain non-violent. The language of name calling and violence is destabilizing whether it is a one on one relationship, or directed at countries. The president is openly combative with everyone who disagrees with him. It'll be deeply fascinating to see how things go when those disagreements happen with people he's hand selected - which is why I think it's important senators support pretty much all of his cabinet selections, at least all of them are completely sane.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#782
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather have a job and a racist in power, or no job and a person isn't racist in power? I believe you are operating on a higher level of the Maslow hierarchy of needs than many people if your primary concern is about equality, and not about food, shelter, and a job.

Minorities on average earn less, have less job security and despite this they utterly rejected Trump and his hateful platform. Trump voters also weren't the most economically desperate, those people voted Clinton. Trump did well among solidly middle class white people in rural areas. So no, Trump didn't get elected because people desperate for a job were willing to overlook his hate.

> Minorities on average earn less

Tell that to Asian Americans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U...

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#783
post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(deleted)

There are a couple of things at work, here. One, you're restricting your view to only those on the internet. There are plenty of other places people express their outrage. Two, use and reach of the internet has only increased over time, amplifying the response you're seeing. As for what you expect or would like Altman to express in his post, do you agree with his post and your issue is that it doesn't also address ot…

(deleted)

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#784
I have a little private wish that Facebook would identify anti-immigration comments by people who themselves are immigrants and post a big red "hypocrite" banner above their posts.

It's so infuriating how quickly people forget their own past and become entitled oppressors themselves.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#785

First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place. Second, it's not "Muslim". Muslims from all other countries (some of them pretty large, e.g. Indonesia and Pakistan), will experience no change in their ability to enter the US. Other than Iran (which imo shouldn't be on the list) we're bombing and droning all of those countries at the moment. It's insane to accept mil…

This is a de facto Muslim ban dressed up enough to make it constitutional. Please don't well-actually right now.

I wouldn't call it that. But what this is, is Trump is testing the waters for a more extensive Muslim ban in the near future.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#786
post #7

Why is that all of these posts saying to "take a stand" fail to explain the political process? I'll just quote myself here. If you want to help stop trump the most effective ways are to: 1. Call - Local congresspeople (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/) - Senators (https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/) - Local officials (https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials) 2. Participate - Get involved in local electi…

While I appreciate the sentiment for a call to action, it seems pretty clear that the people who are pushing this agenda don't care about what other people think. The people who are pushing this agenda lost the popular vote but that has not stopped them. Many of these reps supporting these actions are in districts that are gerrymandered to insulate themselves from anyone that disagrees with them on this kind of actio…

They won 96.1% of all precints. 30% of people within our state voted for him as well, many more would have voted if it wasn't a lost cause in California.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I favor outlawing things like St Patrick's day parades - do these people want to be Irish or American?

I think it's disingenuous to say there's no difference between celebrating your cultural origins and refusing to adopt American ideologies. I'm of Finnish descent. I have a Sisu bumper sticker and eat pulla. Do I refrain from making small talk with strangers at a bus stop? Of course not! Americans tend to be more open to strangers than Finns.

The Amish though, they should definitely be sent back to Germany where they belong.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#788
post #154

I think that the only way to fix this long-term is by winning the hearts and minds of those who think this ban is a good idea, or who are ambivalent about it. Unfortunately, those of us who have been shrilly opposing every move Trump has ever made are perhaps the most poorly positioned to do that. Trump has successfully demonized the voice of the mainstream media and costal cultural elites, and if you're perceived as…

Not thinking of dialogue as 'culture jamming' would probably be a good start.

Yeah, the title isn't great and is a bit click-baity, but if you read the article I think you'll find the content much less objectionable.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#789
post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a couple coworkers from Iran. Would you be willing to look them in the face and explain to them how they're banned re-entry into the country?

Sure. "Muslim immigrants as a group consume more in societal resources than they contribute in taxes or skilled labor."

Have you ever met a Muslim in real life?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#790
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to see this opposing voice here. Discussion is good. Please though, don't use a throwaway: it makes me think you're a government person or bot.

Uhhhh, bad things happen to people who publicly support trump in liberal bastions. A throwaway account is perfectly reasonable. I cannot count the number of times I hear supposedly tolerant people yell "Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences." Where the consequences is usually violence. But thats OK, because it is not the government doing the violence. Being coy about being a Trump supporter is a ne…

There are plenty of voices of all different political persuasions here on HN (and some in each group feels they're in the persecuted minority). I don't think your parent is suggesting that they need to connect their HN account with their true identity. It is useful, however, to maintain a relatively consistent, if pseudonymous, account as that benefits the HN community as a whole.
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