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GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

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Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#771

Post by steveklabnik »

ectoplasm wrote: post #324
om2 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech as a concept isn't just about the first amendment and isn't just about the law. Free speech can be defended on any number of grounds, and many of them apply equally to privately enforced speech restrictions. For example, consider John Stuart Mill, one of the founding figures of modern liberal thought. In On Liberty, his spirited defense of free speech, he argued that shunning or widespread ostracism for e…

What privately-owned properties do you know of where the owner allows guests or customers to speak as freely as if they were on the sidewalk, without fear of recrimination from the owner in the form of censorship or ejection? I can think of 4chan, maybe some IRC channels.

Even 4chan censors various kinds of content, actually.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#772

Post by JungleGymSam »

babygoat wrote: post #575
JungleGymSam wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. As for the larger context, the problem with the frequent use of slippery slope arguments and cries of "censorship" is that people are choosing to die on some pretty ridiculous hills. > 4. If or when Github actually does something truly abusive of their power to censor, then I'll worry. This is bizarre. Your thinking goes directly against our human nature: recognize future danger and try to avoid it. The danger i…

> The danger is that you seem to be choosing to not recognize the growing trend towards what are seen as appropriate responses to being offended: shaming, ostracizing, and the forced silence of the "offender". So wait, do you have a problem with using language against people or not?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_honesty

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#773

Post by kefka »

Nadya wrote: post #770
[deleted] wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

>Just because a movement/ideology is focused on advancing particular issues, doesn't mean they support discrimination against others groups, which is what sexism/racism/etc actually is. White-pride groups that sing the praises of white people while not mentioning POC at all would be totally fine in your book, since they aren't supporting discrimination of POC? I think you're in the minority opinion here... Don't get…

> Don't get me wrong - I think that sexism/racism is about malevolent actions intended to harm or belittle or otherwise negatively discriminate against another group. But I'm of the minority opinion. Benevolent actions are considered sexist/racist nowadays, chivalry is extremely sexist. Always opening the door for women - but not always for men - is sexist.

Same here. There are actions that one can take that are overly sexist. Kitchen comments are common, as are "make me a sandwich", and the like.

There's also the class of subtle insults like "I didnt know you could program". They're harder to correct, but with some self discipline, they aren't that hard.

Then as you said, there's the "Not an insult at all, not even a subtle insult". I've been yelled at by a raging feminist for opening a door for her. Next time, I let it slam in her face, whilst leaving it open for her boyfriend.

I would also define myself as a staunch egalitarian. Aside pregnancy and birth, there are no differences between what a man and a woman can do. Even breastfeed....

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#774

Post by samch »

samch wrote: post #707
rlidwka wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is, to its very roots, a bad word. Even if every single human being using it was meant to be insulting, it still wouldn't make it a bad word. Because there are no bad words. Just like there are no bad numbers or bad colors or bad images. Information can't be good or bad. It has no such property. A message becomes offensive only when its sender said it with the intention to be offensive. And the same message coul…

Wow, I'm hoping you misspoke here, but I'm a bit concerned by the way you confused people who are "mentally ill" with those who have intellectual disabilities. Also, this line is dangerously incorrect: "A message becomes offensive only when its sender said it with the intention to be offensive." If you've ever taken respectful workplace training in the US, you've likely learned the difference between intent and impac…

Any thoughts on why this was down voted? Just curious about what violated the HN policy.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#775

Post by shkkmo »

shkkmo wrote: post #742
kefka wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feminism is an umbrella term for a group of ideologies, some of who do not agree with either of those definitions. In that sense my statement is not accurate. However it is still far more accurate that your attempt to use the latin root of the word to define its meaning while ignoring its use and history. In other words, you just keep moving the endposts so nothing is really "Feminism" unless you agree to it. Got i…

> In other words, you just keep moving the endposts so nothing is really "Feminism" unless you agree to it. Got it. That is the opposite of what I did. What I did was to acknowledge that the term feminism is used to include ideologies that I disagree with. > Repeat after me: The plural of Anecdote is not 'Data' Right, 'Data' is the plural of 'Datum' and I provided you with two of them. I did not make a sufficiently s…

I'd like to amend that last line to read:

a large number people who have individually done more to promote equality in the world that you or I likely ever will.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#776

Post by morganvachon »

DanBC wrote: post #754
morganvachon wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Downvoting isn't equal to censorship. Except when it is. Given sufficient downvotes, a post will fade to the same color as the background, making it easy to scroll past and not see it. Whether you want to admit it or not, brigading happens here too, and once in a while a perfectly valid, thoughtful, and reasoned response is silenced because it doesn't fit in with the group mentality here. The only solution for this…

Git is not equivalent to retard. Git is an everyday word. You can definitely get away with calling a pal a grumpy git. You're not going to get away with calling peoe retards unless you know them very well. And don't do so in public. At least, this is the case for the UK.

And 100 years ago you could get away with calling someone who was mentally impaired a "retard". That's the wonderful thing about language, it's always evolving.

Personally, if someone called me a "git" or a "retard" I would take it exactly the same way, since they are both connotations for "idiot" or "slow thinker".

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#777

Post by iopq »

DanBC wrote: post #469
sklogic wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's about using a word that causes harm Words do not cause harm. It's a slippery slope to total censorship and thought policing to think otherwise.

Words do cause harm. It's a failure of imagination to think otherwise. When you use the word retard you dehumanise people with LD. You contribute to a culture where it's okay to deny those people work; to segregate them in specialist housing; to deny them medical treatment; to kill them with lack of medical treatment. It's a slippery slope to eugenics and genocide to think otherwise.

Your words caused harm to me, could you delete your comment? I am very offended.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#778

Post by lexcorvus »

thedz wrote: post #116
CoryG89 wrote: post #40

For people who don't see what's wrong here. The issue is not about whether the word 'retard' is or is not offensive to anyone. You need to consider that GitHub currently hosts a large percentage of the web's open source repositories. This is censorship plain and simple, something that IMO has no place in open source. The issue is that there are plenty of things some people might find offensive on GitHub but you dont…

1. This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate. 2. It seems like most in this comment thread agree that this action, as a singular act, is a good thing. The word was offensive. Github asked the repo to change it. They did. The end. 3. As for the larger context, the problem with the frequent use of slippery slope arguments and cries of "ce…

1. This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed.

This is true, but the same can be said of the Hollywood blacklist [1] during the Red Scare. Do you support Hollywood blacklist–style ideological litmus tests in technology? If you think such things are a bad idea, and you think a culture that encourages them is dysfunctional, then legality is really beside the point.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#779

Post by dang »

dmansen wrote: post #712
GauntletWizard wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. Let us have genocide, then, for people with learning disabilities, starting with you. This is not an isolated incident - A large portion of the population legitimately believes that allowing people with learning disabilities to live and breed will lead to negative outcomes for all involved, including the disabled. I do not want to kill, or even order mistreatment. I want everyone, regardless of their abilities…

> Good. Let us have genocide, then, for people with learning disabilities, starting with you. uh > Call me hitler, but okay. you're hitler

Please don't feed trolls.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#780

Post by cgearhart »

shkkmo wrote: post #662
kefka wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going on at Github is rather perverse. And it happens to be around the word "Meritocracy". Because of the "feels", the word meritocracy is a 'disempowering word'. It makes people with less skill feel 'less valuable'. So the impetus is to raise your skill? No. It's to devalue others who call you on it, or disregard your uninformed opinion. What this accumulates to is the Github rug in the headquarters. "The Uni…

Feminism is not to blame. Feminism is wonderful and empowering ideology. There is a distinct difference between the ideology of feminism and the behavior of a specific group of feminists. Lumping the two together like that is like blaming Islam for terrorists.

"No True Scotsman" isn't a good way to defend Feminism; continuing to be an example of an empowered feminist is.

In this case, though, you shouldn't even feel the need to defend it because feminism has nothing to do with the OP topic. It was dragged into the discussion because kefka blames feminism...because feminism.

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