Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

771–780 of 1001 posts

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#771

Post by WarmWash »

protimewaster wrote: post #153
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #145

The hypocrisy of Anthropic complaining about "illicitly extracting its Claude AI model capabilities" and supporting the White House's accusation of China "stealing U.S. AI labs' intellectual property on an industrial scale" is hilarious. Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, et al trained their models by ignoring the rights of copyright holders when harvesting whatever content they could. Now one of them is crying fo…

The AI companies seem to take the viewpoint that everything on the internet is free, except their stuff. It's okay to hammer some random website with AI crawlers, ignoring robots.txt, and causing bandwidth costs to skyrocket. But if you cost an AI provider money with your data acquisition practices, well, that's just clearly unacceptable.

>The AI companies seem to take the viewpoint that everything on the internet is free,

The AI companies? That's been the common ethos of the internet for 40 years

I mean, raise your hand if you ad block and have a hard drive of pirated content...

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#772

Post by nicce »

zaptrem wrote: post #551
nicce wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet they did not need to destroy the models which were trained with them?

Should we require the destruction of the brains of those that watch pirated movies?

Have we already agreed that AI is already equal to human life and not machine?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#773

Post by deaton »

tristanj wrote: post #681
bryceneal wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 0 sympathy for Anthropic. Their latest models are extremely censored. The Fable rollout was horrible. Their Cyber Access program criteria denies doxxed Americans doing legitimate security work. Anthropic is hostile to their users and hostile to their own country. OpenAI is considerably better on all of these fronts, but still not perfect. I'm happy to use and support Chinese model developers if it means less c…

Chinese models are the exact opposite of what you claim to want, they are all highly censored, even more so than Anthropic models, with government mandated censorship.

Open-weight models can be abliterated automatically with open source tools though and completely decensored. You can't do that with a closed cloud model.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#776

Post by [deleted] »

1f60c wrote: post #674
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #145

The hypocrisy of Anthropic complaining about "illicitly extracting its Claude AI model capabilities" and supporting the White House's accusation of China "stealing U.S. AI labs' intellectual property on an industrial scale" is hilarious. Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, et al trained their models by ignoring the rights of copyright holders when harvesting whatever content they could. Now one of them is crying fo…

Not really. Data mining for AI is presumably fair use, whereas when you sign up for a Claude account, you enter into a legally binding contract that says you will not distill a model based on its outputs.

[deleted]

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#777

Post by summarybot »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #11

There's two basic kinds of distillation: 1) the massive [and dumb] method where you ask a question and use the answer as reinforcement (Black Box), and 2) more targeted distillation where you use one model to directly inform/train/guide another model (RLAIF). The latter is basically fine-tuning the model with direction from another model. Thousands of businesses do this every day to fine-tune. This is almost certainl…

It's about training data and using Claude to compare 2 outputs and have it indicate the better one. This gives you higher quality training data that you can use to train a fresh set of weights. Weights don't get adjusted on-the-fly, instead the dataset for training is improved and then you train a'fresh. And it's hard to detect because you're just asking the model which of these outputs for a given prompt is better? Or something along those lines.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#778

Post by segmondy »

For all the complaints about Anthropic many of you still give them your money! Stop using it. I don't care if they claim they are the best model. I stopped paying OpenAI and Anthropic 2 years ago once they started going for regulatory capture! They started whining once Llama3 was released and was good! Before the chinese models got strong.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#779

Post by butlike »

ipaddr wrote: post #756
crispyambulance wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard of neutrality that people here pretend to require from news organizations is not even remotely realistic. It was a timely story from Reuters. They do fast news feeds, like APnews. Could it have been better or more accurate? Sure, they could have gone into why distillation may or may not be seen as "an attack". But then it would have been a more involved story, defeating the purpose of a news feed. The Re…

Good enough slop to serve the masses. Doesn't need to be truthful because its fast? Why even both to write anything?

Money. More eyeballs on it means more ad impressions. Same thing with 24 hour news channels.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#780

Post by gmerc »

eviks wrote: post #589
scotty79 wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terms of use is local US fiction of wishful thinking. Nobody cares. You make something available, it's up to the consumer to decide how are they gonna use it. You don't want people to use your stuff how they please? Get off the market.

Obviously wrong on all counts: the company cares. Just like isn't not up to the consumer since the provider can restrict said consumer's access, report those actions to the authorities etc. Lastly, don't like it? Get off the provider?

They ignore the TOS on my website that says no training freely with their scraper so …
Post reply on HN