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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#771

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

Waterluvian wrote: post #660
1234letshaveatw wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I question your sources methodology as, similar to travel habits during the performative COVID border lockdown, Canadians are still heading south en masse over the winter.

Okay that got a hearty laugh. I post a CBC article and you question it, then make a claim while offering no evidence at all . Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find that you're just here as an instigator, possibly not even from North America. Or, maybe I just want to hope that it's malice rather than incompetence that governs your behaviour.

That elicited quite the gafaw, I even lost my breath for a bit. I live in a border state filled with commuting Canadians, and every other residence is owned by a Canadian where I vacation at. The travel protest you take so much pride in is a rounding error

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#772

Post by nozzlegear »

swed420 wrote: post #720
nozzlegear wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I caucused for Sanders 2016 in Iowa. He lost the primary fair and square, and was mathematically eliminated before superdelegates even factored into the contest at all. Sanders had zero appeal outside of white, college-educated people like myself, whereas Clinton was very popular with minorities and white, college-educated people. She was just a better candidate for the Democrat primary, and if you want to win the ge…

Are you a DNC bot? You sure are hitting all of the classics.

Is reality a DNC bot? I'm someone who used to support Sanders, but I chose pragmatism and progress over digging my damn heels in and crying "conspiracy".

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#774

Post by gpvos »

pndy wrote: post #732
gpvos wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used BLIK once, for an online payment from the Netherlands to Poland, and for that it was terrible. I assume it's much better integrated into the Polish system.

Every bank supports it - there are quick money transfers by phone number (as long such number is registered as a payment recipient within Blik) and kind of cheque that can be redeemed using ATM. And of course you can do standard withdraw, deposit operations with Blik using ATM as well. POS terminals supports it along with standard card and contactless payment options. Blik supports one-time, recurring and deferred pa…

I think a nice thing about BLIK is that it actually worked in my case, even though it was cumbersome. Using iDEAL from a Polish account just isn't going to happen.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#775

Post by dismalaf »

brnt wrote: post #681
dismalaf wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a joke but Visa and Mastercard are American corporations so Americans can feel relatively secure using them. If you live in another developed country, relying on the whims of American entities feels less secure than something subject to the laws of your own country.

American consumers have no democratic control of that duopoly either.

They're protected by the laws of their country. Foreigners aren't. That's the point.

Americans corporations have shown they'll just pull out of countries if the law comes down on them too hard.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#776

Post by joe_mamba »

l23k4 wrote: post #753
joe_mamba wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your argument on this? Because nothing that I said is wrong.

The "because" part is wrong. Also, FWIW, countries in the EU don't just get to make their own banking rules. I don't have an argument, you are simply misunderstanding what's happening here. Closing accounts that belong to high risk customers who aren't making you a bunch of money is an entirely normal and legal thing to do. EU solved this a long time ago, you have the right to a "basic payment account". Just not nece…

> countries in the EU don't just get to make their own banking rules.

They 100% do.

>Closing accounts that belong to high risk customers who aren't making you a bunch of money is an entirely normal and legal thing to do.

It isn't a legal thing to do because they didn't give a reason why. ANd if they do give a reason it must be legal to the local legal framework. Is being in the weapons industry a legal argument by Czech laws to close someone's account?

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#777

Post by joe_mamba »

econ wrote: post #764
l23k4 wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it crazy? EU has the "basic payment account" scheme which makes sure that ultimately nobody is left without a bank account.

Yeah, so they say. The eu it self has a faceless committee that debanks people without a day in court or any oversight. The us also freely debanks people (and their family!) in the eu without any kind of legal process. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2025/07/26/europea... Banks are said to be required to state a reason for refusing or freezing an account but at the same time they may not disclose reporting…

>The eu it self has a faceless committee that debanks people without a day in court or any oversight.

Yepo, that's scarier to me than big-tech closing my email account. The issue is HN users defend the EU on its trigger happy ability to debank its citizen without a court trial.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#778

Post by joe_mamba »

l23k4 wrote: post #755
dormento wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reason given by bank, broken internal policy, we cannot disclose which. Goodbye. Wow this sucks. One thing I took from this comment (and the previous one), if you allow me to (badly) synthesize is: we might need less policy making and more policy enforcement.

Why? It's because of enforcement the bank is doing this. The policies don't prohibit banks from getting rid of risky customers, they actively encourage it.

What policies of local legal framework and the bank define as a "rksy customer" might vary completely.

For example many EU banks refuse service to US citizens due to them still being tax liable in their own country and the banks not waiting to deal with that shit. Or they refuse service to Iranians, Russians or other nationalities in case of conflicts. That's the definition of a risky customer and they're legally allowed to bail on.

But working legally in your nations arms industry is not the definition of a risky customer because you're a legal citizen with rights in your own country, your arms company operates legally with all the checks and approvals of the government, and the banks should as well. Therefore there's no risks coming from the customer here to the local bank because neither you or the employer are doing anything in gray legal areas to be a risk.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#779

Post by paduc »

trashb wrote: post #450
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What functionality are you looking for exactly? * Buyer protection * Obfuscation of my banking data (IBAN) * Having access to it with my bank * Not needing to share my contact list At the moment I don't see much improvement over an instant SEPA transaction. Since both parties will see each other's IBAN anyways with Wero I can just give out my IBAN.

> Buyer protection Wero does introduce some sort of chargebacks and disputes, buy from reputable sellers and otherwise you are still free to use paypal for additional protection (but don't send money as "Friends & Family"). > Obfuscation of my banking data (IBAN) IBAN is public facing and it is not a problem to share. It is the identifier of your account therefore required to make transfers. Money can't be charged wi…

> IBAN is public facing and it is not a problem to share.

I would be careful. In practice, you can setup a SEPA collection with an IBAN without the owner even knowing or signing a mandate because the banks don't check.

Of course, you can revert the transactions made this way, ... if you notice them (you have 30 days).

Edit: add time period

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#780

Post by paduc »

spockz wrote: post #21

Pretty much was already available via SEPA. We had a similar system in the Netherlands called ideal which has now been subsumed by Wero to join an European alternative. In the end the idea is simple. All participating bank accounts have lorum/nostrum accounts for the pairs. Whenever the Wero transaction succeeds the money is wired internally directly. I’m not sure whether this mechanism will be replaced by SEPA direc…

I believe Wero is based on SEPA instant transfers. It just facilitates transfers by using emails, phone numbers or QR codes instead of IBANs.
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