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Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

iranintl.com

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Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#771

Post by Ntrails »

severino wrote: post #649
Ntrails wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, what am I supposed to do about it? Encourage your government to invade/incite regime change I guess...? I have never been able to work out where the line lies between intervention and colonialism tbh.

Encourage my government to invade Iran? But only Iran? Shouldn't we attempt regime change in, for example, the US? It would be great if you could hand us the list of the evil countries that we should invade.

> hand us the list of the evil countries that we should invade.

All the ones not currently complying with the will of the greatest nation on earth. Obviously

It's for their own good!

In all seriousness. Perhaps you missed the tone of my previous comment? There is nothing you can do past a certain point other than either embrace the colonial attitude or let the country do its thing. There are no more levers to pull.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#772

Post by ncruces »

figmert wrote: post #628
throwaw12 wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they see Mullah’s regime as one of their biggest allies when it comes to attack West/Israel/Free market you are looking it differently, I disagree, I am one of those who supported Palestine. Reason we are silent, because our governments already did what's needed from our side: heavily sanctioned the Iran, if I go and protest, what do I ask? To sanction Iran? They would laugh at me. Obviously, I am not going…

Not to whataboutism this, but I've barely heard pro-Palestinian crowd talk about the stuff Syria did to the Druze, the Alawites, and now to the Kurds. Multiple of my friends on Instagram still post daily about the atrocities in Gaza, but haven't posted anything about the atrocities in Aleppo or Kobane. Nor did they post anything when the STG was massacring the Alawites or the Druze last year. So I find it hard to bel…

I don't disagree. But still, it's normal to have a higher standard for Israel, a democracy; to assume protest will be more effective at swaying them. Should we not hold Israel to an higher standard?

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#773

Post by lukan »

decimalenough wrote: post #714
lukan wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Actually, there is plenty of telling" To this day, the official version is, nothing happened there and then. If you talk about it online inside china, or using chinese services outside of it, it will automatically be blocked. So yes, people did get out, but till this day they will have to face persecution or other disadvantages and some want to to visit family again or not have them face consequences. In other words…

The demonstrations and crackdowns happened in the largest public squares of China's largest cities, in front of thousands of eyewitnesses, and the dead had friends and families who lived to tell about it. So while we don't have exact numbers, we do have reasonably accurate ballpark estimates. For Tiananmen, the best guess is on the order of a thousand dead, with high end 2x that and the official government figures 20…

Where do I find the official numbers?

Also, china has many cities. If in the biggest incident there were up to 2000 dead, then it all could easily add up to ten thousands. (But like I said, I don't claim to know)

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#774

Post by krainboltgreene »

busterarm wrote: post #733
krainboltgreene wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lifting the sanctions doesn't suddenly make their government, regulation or economy stable True we only sanction them because it's funny. I don't really care what descent you are, anyone can have a bad opinion of American foreign policy. There are tons of people right now in America who are Iranian that are screaming for a crazy monarch to take power.

It's fun to be reminded boards like this can have extremists that think they're in the majority. Sanctions against Iran are imposed by the United Nations (also the US, UK and EU). That means that UN member states think that sanctions against Iran are politically palatable. It's definitionally mainstream opinion that Iran should be sanctioned.

And? Realizing that you can't convince me that punishing the population is correct, you fall back to "Well a bunch of nation states are kowtowing to American hegemony" which is frankly pathetic.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#775

Post by midlander »

ncruces wrote: post #772
figmert wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to whataboutism this, but I've barely heard pro-Palestinian crowd talk about the stuff Syria did to the Druze, the Alawites, and now to the Kurds. Multiple of my friends on Instagram still post daily about the atrocities in Gaza, but haven't posted anything about the atrocities in Aleppo or Kobane. Nor did they post anything when the STG was massacring the Alawites or the Druze last year. So I find it hard to bel…

I don't disagree. But still, it's normal to have a higher standard for Israel, a democracy; to assume protest will be more effective at swaying them. Should we not hold Israel to an higher standard?

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Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#776

Post by midlander »

mrtksn wrote: post #767
Kennel5527 wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsure of your background here. Though the way you refer to the Iranian diaspora hints at gaps I would fill before contributing further to a discussion pointing back the finger at those who are victims in this case, most of the time still with people back in Iran, and who risk even just going to a protest as they could easily be profiled and effectively ban themselves from ever returning back home, if not altogether…

Iranians are indeed incredibly brave, I have nothing but respect to the Iranians fighting the oppressive Islamic regime. Turks for example don’t have the guts to go against their oppressors, the most the Turks do is to wave their cell phone with the lights on rhythmically alongside with a song(which does nothing to stop the issue they are against). That said, I find it very distrustful to smear people who were active…

[dead]

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#777

Post by direwolf20 »

nickff wrote: post #724
direwolf20 wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the modern Israel state have continuity from the Ottoman empire?

That really depends on what you mean by ‘continuity’ and your view of the British Mandate. I could imagine the case being made either way.

I'll give you a hint: the successor to this part of the Ottoman Empire was named Palestine.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#778

Post by phucyucuz0 »

pydry wrote: post #511
joenot443 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think when westerners like myself notice the disparity in response amongst western progressives between the Palestinian and Iranian situations, they're talking more from a social lens than the geopolitical one. A lot of my peers have been incredibly active on social media the last couple years supporting Palestinians. They've been mostly completely silent on Iran, the imbalance is notable.

The Soviet Union used to routinely criticize dissident Nobel Peace Prize winner Andrei Sakharov for having nothing to say about American atrocities. " I don't know anything about them, I don't care about them, what I talk about are Soviet atrocities. " he replied. I wonder how many of the people arguing that "more leftists should be out protesting Iran" agree with the Soviet Union's criticism of its dissident? My gue…

Sakharov actually owned it. He straight up was like "I don't care about them" He never claimed to be the champion of the Americans.

On the other hand, the Left seems to claim to be the main representative of women and gay rights for example, everywhere. You can't build your entire brand on "solidarity with the oppressed" and then ghost the moment you don't have the same specific advantage you want for your agenda.

Sakharov wasn't a hypocrite. That's the difference.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#779

Post by pydry »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #769
pydry wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, whether it's the soviets using it to attack soviet dissidents or zionists using it to attack left wing critics, whataboutism is bad.

I think the difference here would be that it doesn't appear to be an attempt to downplay Palestine. Whataboutism involves both a claim of inconsistency and associated criticism but not all claims of inconsistency and associated criticism constitute whataboutism.

Oh no that's precisely all it is.

It isnt even the first time zionists have done this im the last two months they were trying to whatabout over sudan also.

The thing is, guilt tripping usually works pretty well on the left... unless you're doing it in support of genocidal, nazi-level racist monsters.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#780

Post by kelipso »

rayiner wrote: post #768
int_19h wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most immigration in 00-10s was economical, and yes, for that group of people it's often the case that they are very much still enmeshed in Russian imperial agitprop. It's common enough that there are memes about this: https://lurkmore.media/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%91%... However there was a smallish wave of political immigration after the 2011 protests and 2014 conflict with Ukraine, and a much larger one s…

I really do not understand immigrants who still love their home country. I’m going to die 12 thousand miles away from where my ancestors are buried going back tens of thousands of years. After spending most of my life with ashy dry skin because I’m somewhere I’m not designed to be. All because my ancestors fucked everything up! Fuck those people.

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