Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

771–780 of 977 posts

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#771

Post by dragonwriter »

tastyface wrote: post #743
xcskier56 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an example. One of my friends works for a manufacturing company. He attended a protest. The next day ICE called his employer and he was informed that if he attended another protest he would be fired. All this b/c he had a small company logo on his jacket. The ability to en-mass record, lookup and intimidate citizens is unprecedented and while I have no hard proof that this is due to Palantir, it sure smells li…

Firing due to political activity outside of work? That sounds super illegal.

ICE employees working to “injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same”, such as exercise of 1st Amendment rights, is itself super-illegal (not just “outside their authority” but a federal criminal violation of the KKK Act), whether or not the employer’s response to the resulting pressure is also illegal.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#772

Post by cogman10 »

alpine_accentor wrote: post #597
_bohm wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people involved in protests would not characterize the thing they are resisting as merely "law enforcement". What they are experiencing is an occupation by a politically weaponized paramilitary organization which is going door-to-door in their neighborhoods wearing masks, wielding ARs, yelling at people and brutalizing them. How do you think you would react if this was taking place in your community?

Of course the brutality is not desirable, but to stay in perspective, what would you suggest they do to still enforce the law efficiently but without this forcefulness? They can’t do it the normal way when they are constantly watched and their targets are warned beforehand by whistles and apps and they can’t and shouldn’t back down on enforcing the law.

I expect them to enforce the law without breaking the law. I want the job of any law enforcement agency to be hard. Not because I want lawlessness, but because the government has a rightful burden to surpass to prove that it's citizens are in the wrong. The government is supposed to serve the citizenry and not the other way around.

We have a freedom of speech and protest precisely to signal our discontent with our leaders. It is precisely for citizens to harass law enforcement that they view as unjust.

The entire reason we got those freedoms spelt out in the constitution in the first place was because of British occupation and the views that the British governments laws and enforcement were unjust. There is a direct parallel. The spirit of the 3rd amendment is that we should be able to kick out law enforcement that we hate. That we don't have to tolerate their presence.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#773

Post by AndreyK1984 »

Can someone tell me three things, please! - is ICE illegal or immoral ? Or it is a good tool used wrong ? - can people vote and make ICE stronger / weaker depending on their choice ? - are non registered people breaking the law or not ? Is it basically bad law or bad people ? I am sure US is republic and democracy together, but everyone here pretends ICE is a tool of dictatorship and should be stopped immediately.

If you ask about my personal opinion - it is an internal problem of US citizens, and they need to fix it.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#774

Post by mindslight »

alpine_accentor wrote: post #698
mindslight wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said co-sovereign, not that they're both independently sovereign (required for your treaty example). This is straightforward law, go read up on it. States are considered sovereign themselves, with powers limited by the US Constitution - the same qualification as the Federal government.

It's honestly besides the point. For even if I accept their sovereignty, they have exercised their sovereign will in the Electoral College to elect this administration. And they always have the power to impeach it through their representatives, the administration did not take that away, nor did they suspend the Congress, nor do they appear to be preparing to wrongfully influence the next elections. A state can not go…

Sorry, this is a whole ball of post-hoc motivated reasoning.

> For even if I accept their sovereignty, they have exercised their sovereign will in the Electoral College to elect this administration

Simply repeating the word "sovereign" doesn't mean you've applied and fully accounted for the definition.

> A state can not go and rebel against the Union

I'm not talking about rebellion here, but the provision of law and order in spite of the federal government's policies of repeated lawbreaking.

> when the whole agreement on the separation of powers can be changed with a particular state voting against it - that's a mockery of sovereignty of that state.

This subject is not like computer programming where finding some lever you can pull to affect an axiomatic-deductive result invalidates the independent meaning of the original thing. If two-thirds of the states actually wanted to scrap the current Constitution and turn the federal government into an autocracy with two impotent patronage-review councils, then you would have a point. As it stands, you do not - the entire point of these necessary supermajorities is to put the brakes and pull us towards a foundation of individual liberty and limited government when things are close to evenly divided.

As I said, you really need to read up on the founding of this country. It's got all of these dynamics and more - including the "liberal media".

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#775

Post by simianparrot »

jr-throw wrote: post #576
simianparrot wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The perspective that is constantly missing from these one-sided ICE threads on HN and Reddit (but often exposed in videos after the fact): What are the civilians/protesters actually doing in these situations? This kind of "I'm a sovereign citizen, you can't touch me" behavior used to be rightfully belittled by the same crowd only a few years ago.

It’s insane. I watch the actual source videos from as many angles as I can find, and I’ve not once seen this false narrative of unreasonable retribution by LEO’s. Not once when I find the full context.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#776

Post by mindslight »

jasondigitized wrote: post #745
mindslight wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest-to-God truthfully, reading Moldbug is what made me realize the speciousness of pure rightism and ushered my journey from a rightist-axiomatic "Libertarian" / ancap to a centrist-qualitative libertarian-without-labels that sees left and right thinking as both necessary parts of a complete whole. But YMMV, apparently! In general I think whenever you find a "red pill", you also end up confronted with a whole slew…

I will never ever understand the construct of right / left / red / blue / lib / conservative without having to take a really dumb view of the world and its human inhabitants.

The problem is that left/right are highly appealing because they claim to have the world figured out. The strongest manifestation being the authoritarians (of either ilk) that think they just need to implement their chosen top-down policies and every problem will end up being solved by construction.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#777

Post by foldr »

RickJWagner wrote: post #750
foldr wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re arrested and charged with appropriate offenses, e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyg3j2kvzdo.amp Renee Nicole wasn’t driving a car at anyone, but regardless, it is stupid to shoot someone who’s driving a car at you as it won’t stop the car. What you need to do in that situation is get out of the way.

[flagged]

That was an aside because I think inaccurate summaries of what happened in the videos should always be corrected, however bad MAGA want to post truth this.

But the question we were discussing was whether or not it was normal in other countries for police to shoot the drivers of cars as a means of stopping them. So no agreement on the facts of the Renee Nicole case is required.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#778

Post by GolfPopper »

tastyface wrote: post #628
xyzelement wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's something different than "Americans are passive" - rather, many of them/us perceive the context of what you're seeing very differently. I can share some of this perspective though I don't insist it's the only way to feel. 1. Americans on the ground are clearly feeling the effects of illegal immigration. As an example: a an African American janitor in our kids' school voted republican in 2024 for the firs…

I suspect that these people misattribute poverty and urban decay to illegal immigration when it’s largely a home-grown issue -- in large part due to a concerted effort from right-wing media to slander those immigrants.

And the wealth-extractive effects of those who illegally employ those same immigrants.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#779

Post by ratrace »

gruez wrote: post #364
newfriend wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purposely moving your car in front of law enforcement officers' cars to prevent them from arresting a suspect is in fact obstruction. This is not "violence", but you will be arrested if you do this. If you resist arrest, you will be forcefully arrested/apprehended. If you then attempt potentially life-threatening physical harm to the officer you will likely be met with deadly force.

>If you resist arrest, you will be forcefully arrested/apprehended. If you then attempt potentially life-threatening physical harm to the officer you will likely be met with deadly force. Translation: you'll be summarily executed if the officer vaguely feels "threatened"

You can call it whatever you like, it's going to happen, and you know it will. You have the choice to not throw your life away by fucking with ICE and trying to aggravate and harass them on purpose, and to not become a clickbait internet video of someone getting shot for being stupid.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#780

Post by lbrito »

gehwartzen wrote: post #510
oxqbldpxo wrote: post #21

And ppl were worried about China's 1984 style use of Ai, lol. In the end it was greedy software developers that enable this.

Some guy on X recently commented on how “dystopian” Flock’s nationwide surveillance is. Response by Garry Tan (CEO of YC)[1] “You're thinking Chinese surveillance US-based surveillance helps victims and prevents more victims” [1] https://x.com/garrytan/status/1963310592615485955

Amazing. I have a hard time believing that comment isn't sarcastic, its just too perfect. Its hard to tell these days

If its not, it sounds like the output of an LLM if prompted "You are a toddler. Write the most naive and illogical ideological propaganda possible. Offer no rational justification for your thoughts"

Post reply on HN