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U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

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Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#771

Post by philipallstar »

Jackpillar wrote: post #713
philipallstar wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is just in your head. You might still have 40-year-old instincts from when the authoritarian right was in charge, both in institutions and in social norms, but it's been the authoritarian left for 20 years. Any discussion that engages in spreading stereotypes, rather than debating ideas, is just part of the problem.

"Authoritarian left" We're cooked

Historically this is definitely what's killed the most people, but who knows - maybe this time it'll be different.

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#772

Post by CyberDildonics »

philipallstar wrote: post #702
watwut wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, self-professed "free speech absolutists" generally believe that only right with and nazi speech are the ones worthy of defense. Anybody else who is criticizing those, disagreeing with those or promoting other ideas is seen as threat to free speech. Self-professed "free speech absolutists" get really angry when left or anti right people speak or make the right uncomfortable.

No, this is just in your head. You might still have 40-year-old instincts from when the authoritarian right was in charge, both in institutions and in social norms, but it's been the authoritarian left for 20 years. Any discussion that engages in spreading stereotypes, rather than debating ideas, is just part of the problem.

What sources of information are you getting that you think the people in charge now are not 'authoritarian right' ?

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#773

Post by pyrale »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #529
yibg wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for others. My "anti-American" comment is due to the difference between what's preached and what's practiced. "Leader of the free world", "greatest country on earth" etc. I also wouldn't characterize my comment as anti-American so much as disappointed in America. There is of course more freedom in the US than in say China. But I'm also not holding up China as a beacon of freedom. The US on the other hand,…

>"Leader of the free world", "greatest country on earth" etc. I don't see Americans referring to their country that way anymore. I think you're arguing with an interlocutor who peaked in the Reagan era and has been on a downtrend ever since. Personally speaking, as an American, I don't want to lead the free world anymore. I don't want to be the "greatest country in the world" either. I'd rather the US just stick to s…

...But the tithe has to keep coming.

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#774

Post by hopelite »

bootsmann wrote: post #175
g8oz wrote: post #80

TikTok dealt a serious blow to the Western consensus manufacturing apparatus. We saw that with Gaza especially. This deal is a step towards taking back control.

Taking back control by _checks notes_ handing the Chinese propaganda tool to supporters of the current administration?

I’m not a big TikTok user. Can you characterize the nature of the Chinese propaganda everyone keeps citing in reference to TikTok?

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#775

Post by hopelite »

bootsmann wrote: post #622
fullshark wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wrote this as a snarky rebuttal but you seem to be agreeing with OP? Confusing post.

I didn't realize I was agreeing with op tbh (and I'm still not certain)

People don’t seem to realize that none of these issues are a light switch, red or blue, left or right, my team vs your team; a template the system has worked hard to confine people into especially in the core of the empire, America, because it makes management easier.

It starts as early as childhood cartoons/movies. You are/project yourself as the righteous character and they are the zombies, bad guys, evil wizard, etc. Things are never that simple, but that’s why people are trained into this format. It’s easier managing things when you’ve constrained people into a duality and even intentionally set them against each other to distract.

What is confusing to people is that things like TikTok is like ranchers battling over control of the cattle. Most don’t realize they are not ranchers, as they graze and consume what they are fed to think and engage with.

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#776

Post by fragmede »

brikym wrote: post #769
mullingitover wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like the microwaved corpse of the original 2020 deal. Bytedance keeps all the IP, sells Oracle the nearly worthless right to operate the US infra. They can't even call their franken-app Tiktok. The US user data already sits in the US but they'll expect everyone to forget about that so they can brag about this token win. They'll probably get what they really want, which is an admin console for the algorithm…

Reich? You need to check the background of those involved in the deal.

Ah yes, famed billionaire Larry Ellison, 98% owner of the Hawaiian Island of Lānaʻi, who you famously should not anthropomorphisize [1][2] who has proposed using AI on mass surveillance cameras so that ‘citizens will be on their best behavior’[3] is definitely not into authoritarian government. He's totally not known as being an authoritarian CEO, with financhill describing his reign as CEO: > Of these four leadership styles, Larry Ellison’s style is decidedly autocratic. [4]. He may be a Jew, and the holocaust may be the worst thing the Nazis did, but it wasn't the only bad thing about their reign.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15886728 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=1981s [3] https://fortune.com/2024/09/17/oracle-larry-ellison-surveill... [4] https://financhill.com/blog/investing/larry-ellison-leadersh...

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#777

Post by fragmede »

zamadatix wrote: post #756
immibis wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to what people already said, Biden isn't left-wing.

I'd tend to agree (I voted Jill Stein) but in context of U.S. politics he's usually considered as such (at least as center left, not center right or even center), albeit less so than some other figures.

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being left and 10 being right, Biden's about a 6, and Trump is like 10.

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#778

Post by zamadatix »

fragmede wrote: post #777
zamadatix wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd tend to agree (I voted Jill Stein) but in context of U.S. politics he's usually considered as such (at least as center left, not center right or even center), albeit less so than some other figures.

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being left and 10 being right, Biden's about a 6, and Trump is like 10.

I'd also agree Trump is more conservative than Biden is liberal, but I think we're getting a bit into the weeds here...

The point with Biden and Trump is whenever free speech is mentioned, people conclude the part of a political spectrum they identify with is being attacked by someone they perceive as being on a different part, with no belief there could ever be a person actually worried about free speech itself. It's not at all about whether I agree or disagree with where they perceive that threat to be from on the spectrum, it's just what such people like to claim. I've yet to see a normal political spectrum where 100% of folks agree with free speech absolutism, even when inconvenient.

To folks who actually care about free speech instead of partisan politics, the idea of debating where on a scale of 1 to 10 the source of the threat might be from is in itself absurdly irrelevant. To folks that don't care about free speech, it's convenient to perceive free speech claims as only ever having a hidden partisan agenda instead of allowing the possibility of a free speech absolutist. The only exception I can think to any of this is a political spectrum where one side is "free speech absolutism" itself.

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#779

Post by dashundchen »

MiiMe19 wrote: post #468
dashundchen wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These fascist Republicans are not intending on giving up power. A bit China mixed with the sham democracies of Russia, Hungary or Turkey - this is the model they're going for. What do you think the push behind the new gerrymandered districts is for? Why do you think they are assembling a national voter registration database that hasn't existed before? https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/trump-doj-national-... Wh…

I thought conservatives were the conspiracy theorists. 1. Gerrymandering is and always has been a thing, blue and red. Nothing has changed. 2. Government puts government data from multiple government places into one government place. More news at 11. 3. Because you get stabbed/shot for just existing in them? Because of the riots earlier this year? Fascism = Something I don't like. Get a grip.

There were no riots, you don't get stabbed or shot just for existing in these cities. What planet are you living on?

Violent crime has been dropping for years in almost every major liberal city in America. Are there still random incidents? There always will be, but fun violence rates are actually higher in many rural and GOP led states than in major cities.

You need to get a grip and disconnect yourself from the propaganda the fascists are feeding you. The military does not belong in US cities.

Re: U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

#780

Post by fragmede »

nikkwong wrote: post #545
glenstein wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is there something so overwhelmingly devious about the TikTok format in particular that the government has to supervise it? Well, yes, for starters. I think there's a pretty strong consensus from people on all sides that there's no more addictive algorithm than the TikTok one. It's the beneficiary of powerful network effects, it created those effects for itself with a superior app, but nevertheless it is a distingui…

> but a culturally dominant app being leveraged by an authoritarian state goes in the not good colunm. I think political scholars will debate on what the net effect of this is actually going to be. As in, are we better off with the GOP or the CCP controlling the algorithm? Certainly, the CCP has anti west incentives that the GOP does not, like trying to confuse us as to how we should feel about protecting Taiwan. But…

Having control of "The Algorithm" is putting it vaguely. The two things are making sure everyone sees a certain video, like how China did with the factory videos taking down luxury brands. The other is filtering out things entirely, eg Epstein or Luigi Mangione. The worst is that they'll learn from the CCP, which is to let people air their frustrations, just don't let them get organized.
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