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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#771

Post by rubzah »

GoatInGrey wrote: post #315
FridayoLeary wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.

This was me. I was browsing Hamas' Telegram account as they released the FPV videos that day. The two most disturbing scenes were the pantless body of a teenaged girl being burned amidst chanting of "Allahu Akbar", and militants scouring buildings for any person or pet they could kill and doing just that whenever they found someone. I learned a very uncomfortable—though valuable—lesson about humans that day.

Yeah, that never happened.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#772

Post by meowface »

perfmode wrote: post #714
kharak wrote: post #697

Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?

Given the deliberate creation of unlivable conditions on the ground and the absence of any viable plan for restoring Palestinian life and sovereignty, the civilian population of Gaza faces two primary and foreseeable outcomes: Mass mortality from non-combat causes: The synergistic crisis of famine, disease, and healthcare collapse makes widespread death from starvation, dehydration, and preventable illness a mathemat…

Counterfactual: let's say Israel had never blocked food or other aid (or at least not more than since before October 7) but everything else were the same. Would it still be considered a genocide?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#773

Post by computerthings »

adastra22 wrote: post #687
nakamoto_damacy wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to shame PG for his elitist views. Now I celebrate his moral courage. One man cannot fix everything. Dear PG (I'm sure you don't read HN, but this is yet another echo), As I said on X, your own platform (YCombinator) is still full of hateful bigots who would censor/downvote even the mildest form of speaking against the genocide. Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorsh…

Having a difference of opinion on a very complicated geopolitical situation that is the culmination of a century of regional conflict is not being a "hateful bigot" or abuse.

[dead]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#774

Post by ethics13 »

runarberg wrote: post #57
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #52

Seeing the number of flagged comments, and going from past discussions where any discussion seen as pushback was flagged, this discussion really doesn't belong on hacker news.

The infrastructure for genocide needs a lot of technology and technology related subject. The victims of genocides include technology workers, hobbyists and hackers. No doubt there are HN members who are current victims of the ongoing genocide. They deserve our sympathy and their existence needs to be acknowledged.

The mental gymnastics to make this stick is truly incredible.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#775

Post by Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe »

the_origami_fox wrote: post #676
toomim wrote: post #579

[flagged]

There are many issues raised with the report, including it omits the invasion by the government of Gaza, Hamas, on 7 October 2023 entirely, and it omits that the Israeli army is fighting the army of Gaza, the Qasam brigades, who had 40,000 salaried fighters (pre-war), have fired thousands of missiles, developed hundreds of kilometres of tunnels specifically for urban warfare, and subverted public and private infrastr…

Is it actually relevant? It's not about why israel fights but about how they fight. The report is not about the conflict at large but about how exactly israel is handling day to day operations.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#776

Post by mattlutze »

Gareth321 wrote: post #731

The Chair of this "independent" inquiry is Navi Pillay of South Africa ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_International_Comm... ); the nation which accused Israel of genocide and referred it to the ICJ. The outcome of this inquiry was always going to be highly partisan. The report's definition rests upon statements by key Israeli officials in determining genocidal intent. While the statements are accurate, i…

In this situation, where you advocate for waiting until a different organization gives its opinion: while waiting, will net-more harm have occurred if Israel

1. reduces the volume and density of violence being acted on that territory, or 2. continues, as it is currently doing, to increase the volume and density of violence being acted on that territory

Is there a different answer, should this other organization’s opinion affirm or refute genocide?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#777

Post by mattlutze »

diordiderot wrote: post #748
michaelsshaw wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amnesty International, The International Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, numerous other human rights organizations and world governments all say the same thing: genocide. To deny this is to say that you believe all of those groups are wrong and it is actually Netanyahu, Trump, Biden and Harris, along with their cronies in congress are correct. It is a position that cannot be defended logically.

[flagged]

If you think for yourself—like you should do, absolutely—and look at this situation through all of the information that has come out, how can you conclude that the overwhelmingly unilateral and indiscriminate violence being acted on this territory is reasonable, justified, and not a systematic eradication of the people who live there?

I would really like to understand the based & logical reasoning that you use to arrive at this position.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#780

Post by mackeye »

mvdwoord wrote: post #767
diordiderot wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Indeed.. besides the herd mentality, and obvious bias in all of these authorities, what irks me most is the complete and utter randomness of the outrage over Gaza. I'm sure horrible things happen there, also that Israel plays dirty, but the selectiveness of the outrage, and complete silence on similar situations, or for that matter, the United States foreign policy of the past century... I honestly don't care what ha…

if you can't find rationality (or the root of ideology) in either side of the conflict, you haven't tried particularly hard.

israel's existence and industry is in the interest of the global bourgeoise. "what to do" with the palestinians they displaced has lingered until they were boldened enough by their utter impunity to enact the measures they've taken. israel is the final "classically" imperial nation: to proceed in any manner which favors the palestinians remotely strips the modern colonial empire of its credulity in its own eternal existence.

hamas is an anti-colonial bourgeois movement, of which we've seen many. their are less reactionary elements within the palestinian resistance as well. this pattern has emerged many times in e.g. north africa, what's unique about palestine is that its anti-colonial war has persisted 60 years past the ends of the others.

colonialism is suffocation. it serves only the u.s., israel, etc., to see it as a tit for tat and shield your eyes from any news out of the entire region.

...and, your last sentence is unreal, to be honest. it's a genocide, and you're curious why no one would like to take the unfortunate undesirables at the receiver's end? are you so immune to ideology?

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