Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The $25k car is going extinct?

media.hubspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

771–780 of 1001 posts

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#771

Post by BanterTrouble »

lelanthran wrote: post #455
BanterTrouble wrote: post #382

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated. The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand. e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what…

There's more to it than 'electronics'. Here's my more recent fixes: ----------------------------------- 1. The fuel pipe saga. Fuel pipe from pump (tank) to engine is a single, molded, hard-plastic and inflexible pipe. Connecting it to new quick release attachments on either end requires a heat gun. At the factory they can heat-shrink the connectors onto the pipes as there is no fuel in the car. When my quick-release…

It does seem everything is over-engineered or under-engineered and cannot be taken apart. The Electrical stuff I mentioned because I was working on it over the weekend.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#772

Post by tlogan »

dudeinhawaii wrote: post #751
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

While we're being data driven - the narrative isn't far off from reality. Looking at inflation in isolation is also misleading. Plainly, prices have risen faster than pay. Avg. new-car price: $23,017 in 2005 -> $47,465 in 2024 (+32% after inflation). Median household income: $46,242 in 2005 -> $80,610 in 2023 (+12% after inflation).

We can also say that the average cost of education has risen 141.0% over the last 20 year.

So I’m not saying that things are not expensive now: but not having cheap cars is not the reason for that. And that is what the article is saying.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#773

Post by bunderbunder »

csomar wrote: post #627
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

> - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) You'll need to provide hard evidence for this. I was pretty young in 2005 but $15.000 would get you a decent car (though not a pickup). That being said, it is possible we have more models now under 25.000 but what $15/25k used to buy you (segment wise) has downgraded.

Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars

That said, we picked up one of the cars on this list for well under $15,000 in 2010. (And it's still going strong! Never needed a major repair.) Which doesn't really mean anything, just throwing out yet another anecdote to highlight that nobody's presented any information that actually supports or contradicts the major premise that cars are getting less affordable. Segmenting your data by picking arbitrary cutoffs (like $25,000) has its own chapter in the classic book How to Lie With Statistics.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#774

Post by lagadu »

safety1st wrote: post #604
moooo99 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, that statement is entirely untrue. These cars aren‘t 10k in most (all?) of the EU for example. As far as I know, these 10k cars are really only a thing in china and some SEA markets (I am not sure if these cars are really that cheap adjusted to purchasing power in these markets). Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are ex…

American expat living in Thailand reporting in. I think the cheapest car in Thailand is the 2025 Suzuki Celerio which is a 5 seater hatchback. At the current exchange rate it's $9,800 brand new. Of course this figure is not adjusted for purchasing power (so what?). We have BYDs here and I haven't really looked at them but pretty sure a few are under $25K. If Americans can't get a new car for under $25,000 but Southea…

Not just SE Asia: In Europe I can go buy a Dacia Sandero for 14k€ right now (about $16500) and that includes 23% VAT.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#775

Post by nemomarx »

marcellus23 wrote: post #760
dudeinhawaii wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're being data driven - the narrative isn't far off from reality. Looking at inflation in isolation is also misleading. Plainly, prices have risen faster than pay. Avg. new-car price: $23,017 in 2005 -> $47,465 in 2024 (+32% after inflation). Median household income: $46,242 in 2005 -> $80,610 in 2023 (+12% after inflation).

Is the average new-car price the average price that people are buying cars at, or the price that cars are being released at?

I believe it's the price they're bought at, and the rate of average car debt is also similarly higher so it checks out

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#776

Post by bumby »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #610
threetonesun wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tire sensors and backup cameras are dirt cheap though. Maybe lane warning and collision avoidance are a bit more but they’re both 10+ year old technology, they can’t cost that much. Also all of these things are good. Redoing the steering wheel or using 22” wheels or adding heating for each individual ass cheek… that I don’t need, and it adds to the cost.

Anything that takes control away from me I am not interested in. I am both legally and financially liable for anything the car does. I am also not trusting my life to some poorly maintained software written by someone in another country.

Do you drive a fuel injected car or do you prefer the “control” of adjusting your carburetor?

Not being snarky, just pointing out we’re often guilty of picking and choosing rather than applying first principles.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#778

Post by GFischer »

dylan604 wrote: post #653
kachapopopow wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are saying that you can't find a used car for cheap anymore more than anything.

After the supply chain crisis which saw used car prices look like new car prices, the used market really never came back to a sane level. I also wonder how many people are in the market for cars old enough to not have all of the telemetry tracking, "everything is computer" touchscreen nonsense which could be having an effect on the supply/demand of that part of the used car market. I recently bought a car specificall…

The used car pricing in the USA used to be bizarrely cheap, it's now corrected or overcorrected.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#779

Post by Der_Einzige »

a_c wrote: post #431
BanterTrouble wrote: post #382

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated. The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand. e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what…

Any recommendation how to start learning repairing a car? I have absolutely zero experience. A friend of mine said just learn to change a tyre first and I have been procrastinating since.

The reality is that learning how to repair modern cars yourself without the help of someone experienced is a great way to get yourself killed.

You might not know about Harbor Freight jackstands being far overrated and thus kill yourself by assuming that they will hold their rated load.

You almost certainly cannot find more than some youtube videos about how to do things on your post 2015 vehicle. Haines and other repair manual companies don't exist or on life support and haven't made a new guide since 2020 at the latest.

The average entry level talent, i.e. the folks at Jiffy Lube/Vavoline, are often doing things so wrong that it'd be better to never try to "learn" in an environment where they will impact and strip your oil plug, up-sell grandmas with fake dirty filters and "blinker fluid" stories, etc.

If you don't have an actual experienced mechanic to learn from (i.e. someone who can strip and put back together an engine and it runs perfectly) - don't even bother! I'm not joking and I'm exactly like you in that I want to learn to work on cars! But I've learned that the tactics that allow you to get to making 300K a year in tech without much of being taught by other people do NOT work with cars. You WILL need to socialize with a master mechanic. There's no other way.

oh btw - most of the stuff like oil and car related gunk that will touch you when you work on cars is TOXIC AS HELL. Same with what you will breathe (most people don't mask when they should in a garage and they often don't ventilate too).

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#780

Post by jshen »

dudeinhawaii wrote: post #751
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

While we're being data driven - the narrative isn't far off from reality. Looking at inflation in isolation is also misleading. Plainly, prices have risen faster than pay. Avg. new-car price: $23,017 in 2005 -> $47,465 in 2024 (+32% after inflation). Median household income: $46,242 in 2005 -> $80,610 in 2023 (+12% after inflation).

You shouldn't compare an average to a median in this way.
Post reply on HN