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US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

theguardian.com

771–780 of 878 posts

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#771

A lot of our systems work because everyone at least half heartedly sort of goes by the rules. Yes, everyone sort of pretends to obey the rule and hence it works. In reality these systems are extremely fragile and a small committed minority can totally break years of precedent and systems. I think we are at that phase right now from the right side and soonish we will see the same from right left as well.

It's like imagine playing soccer with your buddies and one decides to pick up the ball and kick anyone in their path - but the goals still count. The game sort of breaks.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get deported before you even have a chance to prove your citizenship, then it's a distinction without a difference. Be sure to carry your papers with you at all times!

If someone is deported before they can prove their citizenship, then due process hasn’t worked, and that’s a serious failure The distinction I was trying to make isn’t that undocumented people have no rights and it’s just that the process they’re entitled to is different in scope There are safeguards that could be added such as access to interpreters, better identity verification, etc But the answer can’t be local in…

> Congress could budget and pass a law to fix things. It’s not up to the Executive and Legislative Branch.

The executive swears to uphold the constitution. Not write EOs that clearly violate it, then strategically drop appeals when they lose, so as to undermine the constitution for everyone without the means to dispute their case.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to judge shopping isn't making the president a king.

He's not but the constitution vests him with all executive power. This is broad. It's also a co-equal branch. The inferior courts don't even need to exist. Congress can dissolve them at any time. It's a gross violation of the separation of powers for a district court to enjoin executive action.

> The inferior courts don't even need to exist.

Do you mean to say we can have a functional judiciary with only a supreme Court to rule on everything?

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The “protests” recently were tepid and nearly all elderly liberals with nothing better to do. They set records for size and you know it. What do you mean by 'tepid', because they didn't riot? Would you acknowledge them as more valid if they had rioted, or declared angry tones that they had to be put down immediately? > A big chunk of the country really wants mass deportations, and for the most part, folks in the br…

> They set records for size and you know it. What do you mean by 'tepid', because they didn't riot? According to whom? I'm in the D.C. metro area, and the protests are far less noticeable than the 2017 pink hat protests or the 2020 riots. They organized a bunch of small protests all around the country so more people maybe participated, but the intensity is low even in DC. > Absolute BS. No matter what they do, you'll…

> I'm in the D.C. metro area

Different goals, they are trying to influence congress which cares a lot more about local protests than the number of people showing up to DC. Going to DC is counterproductive for that kind of thing.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is working as designed. It is the design chosen because it is better than the alternative of hundreds of conflicting orders leaving innocent people unprotected. This will obviously increase the number conflicting orders by several orders of magnitude, but either way: the conflicting orders are what we want to happen, because it errs on the side of caution. The fact that some courts disagreed didn't negative…

It’s not about sounding scary. It is about whether our legal system should allow a single district judge to set nationwide policy even when their ruling conflicts with other courts, before the issue has been fully litigated through appeals What you are advocating for is legal uncertainty at scale. The new limits push legal questions upward through appeals rather than outward through conflicting orders and ensure nati…

More importantly, it is about whether our legal system should allow a king to set nationwide policy even when their orders conflict with the constitution.

A president getting to do literally everything he wants, whenever he wants, as fast as he wants, regardless of legality, is plainly less important than preventing the above from happening. What you are advocating for is a king.

The new limits allow a king-president to illegally harm people potentially indefinitely, until every single person, or at least each individual district, successfully individually files suit to stop him, or until a supreme court gets around to stopping him (years? decades?)

That's obviously way worse than some scary sounding bureaucratic metaphor like "legislative whiplash" which doesn't actually harm me at all. The concern about "legal uncertainty" is a joke compared to actually abusing people and sending them to a gulag without due process

> national issues are resolved by courts with the authority to decide them.

Every court has the authority to decide if an action is unconstitutional. The only thing that changed is that the executive is now free to continue that unconstitutional action until ~300 million people successfully challenge it in ~100 districts. Obviously that is worse, and more "chaotic" than pausing unconstitutional harm to people while the issue is resolved. Especially because it means ~100x more conflicting nationwide orders from different judges.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#776
post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His platform required it... Or did you think he was suggesting extreme taxes on companies or wealthy people? No, I figured he was proposing deficit spending, just like every GOP President in my lifetime. Trump's platform is like that of every third world politician that promises voters everything they want without anything they don't, and America is a third world country now.

Ahh you simply misunderstood then. Heavy deficit spending eventually = inflation, ie why it spiked during COVID and why inflation was higher at the end of Trump’s first presidency than the start of his second. He’s been surprisingly consistent in at least make token efforts to do what he said he was aiming to do.

You’re conflating two different points: what’s true in reality, and what voters thought they were voting for. Trump’s platform is aimed at people who don’t understand that deficit spending leads to inflation. (It didn’t under Reagan or Bush.) Or, alternatively, they thought there was trillions of dollars of fat in the budget that could be cut without affecting services they want.

It’s like how Democrats think you can balance the budget and expand social spending by “taxing the rich a little bit more” (hand gesture). Counting on Americans to be innumerate is winning politics.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm arguing that the Constitution guarantees due process to anyone subject to US jurisdiction, and the nationwide injunctions were necessary because ICE was sweeping people off the streets and quickly shipping them to different countries intentionally and explicitly in contravention of due process. If every single case must be prosecuted individually, those who have been illegally robbed of due process will already b…

No that's completely insane. If that were actually what the constitution meant than the federal government needs to be dissolved because it's completely useless. Obviously we do not need to litigate undocumented immigrants before deporting them.

[deleted]

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it All I am advocating for is better safeguards that Congress must pass not throwaway the entire structure by allowing local injunctions. Understandably people are upset but point the anger at the right branch. Executive is operating within its legal parameters and the legislative branch needs to operate within theirs. Congress needs to provide better safeguards

>Executive is operating within its legal parameters Huh? Since when is issuing executive orders that attempt to contravene the plain language of the US Constitution, something that's clearly illegal, "operating within [the executive branch's] legal parameters"? Whether Congress is doing its job or not (I'd argue they're not representing their constituents in any meaningful way -- hell, I wanted to vote against my con…

Not excusing bad executive orders.

The remedy should come through the right constitutional channels: lawsuits, appeals, congressional action. The concern I raised is about courts going beyond their own limits to impose broad fixes when the real solution lies with Congress or SCOTUS.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ACLU Lets not forget the ACLU has burnt 100 years of goodwill to become the bad guys in the past decade. They went from from amazing freedom fighters to lets hope their organization gets destroyed because of the awful humans they let in internally in recent times. I understand there is a split with an old guard still fighting to get it back, but they will lose. > "the cruelty is the point" read that EO Helps if you…

Mind providing a link to more info about your first claim about the ACLU?

[dead]

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is deported before they can prove their citizenship, then due process hasn’t worked, and that’s a serious failure The distinction I was trying to make isn’t that undocumented people have no rights and it’s just that the process they’re entitled to is different in scope There are safeguards that could be added such as access to interpreters, better identity verification, etc But the answer can’t be local in…

> Congress could budget and pass a law to fix things. It’s not up to the Executive and Legislative Branch. The executive swears to uphold the constitution. Not write EOs that clearly violate it, then strategically drop appeals when they lose, so as to undermine the constitution for everyone without the means to dispute their case.

If an EO clearly violates it, it should be challenged and struck down. My point isn’t that the executive can act with impunity. It is that the judiciary must do so within its own constitutional limits.

If the executive is dropping appeals to avoid nationwide precedent, that’s a serious problem, but the long-term fix isn’t local injunctions

See my point?

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