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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#771

Post by throw16180339 »

protonbob wrote: post #193
basisword wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> In the UK, there's no right to bear arms, so people are pretty helpless against their oppressing government. There's a right to bear arms in the US and it doesn't seem to be helping them with their oppressive government.

Look into the Black Panthers. It actually does work quite effectively.

The Mulford Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act), a California gun control act that prohibits open carry, was originally passed back in the 60s to disarm the Black Panthers.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#772

Post by buzzerbetrayed »

Cornbilly wrote: post #466
IceHegel wrote: post #430

I'm sympathetic to the J.D. Vance angle, which is that European governments are increasingly scared of their own people. This is not doing a lot to change my mind.

The unspoken part of that is Vance likely thinks that the people should fear their government.

[flagged]

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#773

Post by kbolino »

sureIy wrote: post #751
kbolino wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardware will not allow this, at least not without modifications. The encryption keys are not exportable from the Secure Enclave, not even to Apple's own servers.

Are you gonna unlock that phone anytime soon? Thanks for opening the enclave, don't mind if I ship these keys back home. No notification needed, Apple has root access.

Assuming the enclave can receive OTA firmware updates and those updates can completely compromise it, which are not actually proven facts, there's no way to target this to the UK alone without either exempting tourists and creating a black market for loophole phones or else turning all of Britain into a "set foot here and ruin your iPhone forever" zone.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#775

Post by codedokode »

ckcheng wrote: post #643
kelnos wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the (US) doctrine that work cannot be compelled Is this actually a thing? Telecoms in the US are compelled to provide wiretap facilities to the US and state and local governments.

>> Apple's defense against backdooring E2E is the (US) doctrine that [government can’t] be compelling work (or speech, if you prefer) It’s really not "work” but speech. That’s why telecoms can be compelled to wiretap. But code is speech [2], signing that code is also speech, and speech is constitutionally protected (US). The tension is between the All Writs Act (requiring “third parties’ assistance to execute a prior…

It's weird bending of law. Code, especially closed-source code, is not a speech; it's a mechanism and the government may mandate what features a mechanism must have (for example, a safety belt in a car).

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#776

Post by samldev »

sneak wrote: post #697
kshacker wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the impact of Apple withdrawing from China will be. I know we are talking about UK, but this made me think. Not only their sales will reduce, but hey Chinese manufacturing cuts down. By how much? Will it be impactful? I would think so but wonder if it is quantifiable.

Almost all iPhones are made in China. They cannot pull out without shutting down. They make on average 60,000 ios devices there every hour, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Your math adds up to 525,600,000 iOS devices per year. That can't possibly be right

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#777

Post by Gatorguy »

crimsoneer wrote: post #434
nottorp wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have an Android device beside me that regularly asks me to back my device up to the cloud But is that backup encrypted? If it's not, all they need is to access your data. This is about having access to backups that are theoretically encrypted with a key Apple doesn't have? > We're talking about the largest back door I've ever heard of. Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stor…

Android data isn't encrypted at rest (or at least not in a way Google doesn't have the key). If the uk gov has a warrant, they can ask Google to provide your Google Drive content. The whole point of this issue is Apple specifically designed ADP so they couldn't do that.

Wrong. Google Android user cloud backups are E2EE by default.There is no option to opt out. Use Google's backup service and your data is encrypted at rest, in transit, and on device. aka end-to-end.

It's not just Google saying it. Google Cloud encryption is independently verified

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#778

Post by codedokode »

Krasnol wrote: post #667
yunwal wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government forced them to pull the feature. Would you rather they left a toggle-switch that doesn't actually do anything? Or are you thinking they should just pull out of the EU altogether?

Making a stand would be leaving UK (UK is not in the EU) altogether. This is almost as bad as building a backdoor. This is leaving your customer in the rain. Fortunately for Apple, most of them won't even know or realize it.

Making a stand would be displaying a full-screen notification about why they cannot provide protection for British users' data and which party voted for this.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#779

Post by Gatorguy »

GeekyBear wrote: post #250
nottorp wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked if your Android backup is encrypted. Implies I'm talking about unencrypted data. > See, for example, the Las Vegas shooter case I am not in Las Vegas or anywhere else in the US. So as far as i know all the data about me that is stored in the US is easily accessible without a warrant unless it's encrypted with a key that's not available with the storage. > companies are not compelled to build systems which ena…

This is why Apple, and more recently Google, create systems where they don't have access to your unencrypted data on their servers. > Google Maps is changing the way it handles your location data. Instead of backing up your data to the cloud, Google will soon store it locally on your device. https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/5/24172204/google-maps-delet... You can't be forced to hand over data on your servers that you…

Small correction.

Google had "created a system where they don't have access to your data on their servers" a couple of years BEFORE Apple. Android 10 introduced it in 2019.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#780

Post by Spooky23 »

tholdem wrote: post #453
bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

> What concerns me more is that Apple is the only company audibly making a stand. But still Apple operates in China and Google does not. This is weird to me. Google left China when the government wanted all keys to the citizens data. Apple is making a stand when it's visible and does not threaten their business too much. Apple is not really in the business of protecting your data, they are just good at marketing and…

It’s different. Apple follows Chinese law to operate their services in China, just like Microsoft.

With Google, their services are way broader. Operating a hunk of their search business with a third party Chinese firm just isn’t viable for their services, which are way more complex.

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