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El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

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Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#771

Post by tim333 »

uni_rule wrote: post #769
tim333 wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>President Nayib Bukele’s government has accumulated 5,900 BTC, achieving profits of $333.59 million from an initial $269.74 million investment, fuelled by Bitcoin’s recent surge past $100,000. (dec 2024) I wish I could have a $333m failure like that. (edit - see also his approval rating - 91% https://x.com/stats_feed/status/1875573928250179666 )

If the only thing it can accomplish is being traded back and forth for "hard" currencies such as the US Dollar than it's no more useful than the Soviet Ruble. It's not even useful as an actual anonymous currency, it's not even anonymous without a considerable amount of legwork.

The soviet ruble is not widely accepted and did not hold its value well. Bitcoin functions more like gold reserves.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#772

Post by dragonwriter »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #541
pajko wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IMF are tough guys, countries do not want to owe them, but usually don't have better options. They don't give "loans" and impose rather strict policies on everything. https://actionaid.org/publications/2023/fifty-years-failure-...

The IMF are an arm of the US "diplomatic" apparatus. The charitable interpretation of how they operate looks like this: 1) A country is doing something the US doesn't like. 2) The country is in some trouble of their own making. 3) The IMF will come and bail them out if they would be inclined to start doing the things the US likes instead of the things it doesn't like. The uncharitable interpretation of "2)" is "the c…

> The IMF are an arm of the US "diplomatic" apparatus.

No, they aren't.

> The charitable interpretation of how they operate looks like this:

You misspelled “conspiratorial”, and it's not even the most reasonable conspiracy theory.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#773

Post by dragonwriter »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #565
warkdarrior wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your claim is that US administration through the IMF is forcing El Salvador to drop Bitcoin as a national currency. The same US administration that proposed creating a "national digital asset stockpile"??!? (per https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/23/trump-signs-executive-order-... )

The IMF agreement requiring them to do this was from December, i.e. the prior US administration.

The IMF isn't run by the US any more than it is run by Russia or any of the other major members (those that have their own executive-director rather than being in a group that together shares one.)

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#774

Post by freejazz »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #664
troupo wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the value of your coin only goes up in value, why would you use 1 bitcoin now to buy a pizza slice if you can use it 5-10 years from now to buy a house?

A house in 5-10 years is nice, but it doesn't stop me from starving to death today.

And who doesn't want to live in an economy where your purchasing decisions are made with the hunger of starvation!

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#775

Post by desumeku »

nshung wrote: post #744
desumeku wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum solves both of these issues. It is an entire platform designed for the development of distributed applications and will probably win over BTC in the long-long-term.

No. Ethereum is a solution searching for a problem. Have you seen any widely used successful application developed using Ethereum?

There are tens of billions of dollars locked up in DeFi ecosystems with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of assets exchanging hands daily, but you would probably just say that it doesn't count for some inane reason.

Tokenized stocks are coming this year.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#776

Post by georgeecollins »

sporkydistance wrote: post #375
FireBeyond wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your one good use is... tax evasion. Huh. It's not illegal to move money out of your investment accounts, it's just reported so that yes, you can have a tax liability. I too, would like tax-free investments and funds.

Yes! That's my one good use! :) Seriously, that's all I got.

I think the government is figuring this out and has access to a lot of info about BTC from the Binance settlement. That's just speculation on my part, it may not be true.

What I think a lot of people don't realize is that the US government is not very interested in going after people who do tax evasion in the $5-50 m range. People like that can afford lawyers and representatives, it will take years, and never get any headlines. They love to go after people for $5-50k evasion because they just get paid.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#777

Post by toenail »

mminer237 wrote: post #748
toenail wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> asset class like gold and nothing else, it will never be more than that Lol, gold that can be teleported around the globe for fractions of a cent, yeah.. it sucks that bitcoin will never be more than that.

The transaction fee is currently $1.64 and frequently spikes to tens of dollars. (Yes, sometimes LN can reduce that.) You can buy gold via something like $GLD for free.

It's funny how people keep pretending like there's only on chain bitcoin or that lightning is broken in 2025.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#778

Post by toenail »

yieldcrv wrote: post #723
toenail wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://docs.lightning.engineering/the-lightning-network/tap...

thanks! yes I mean to check on bitcoin after major network upgrades like Taproot. okay that article was last updated 10 months, how is that panning out with standardized protocols and wallet integration and issuance? I’m curious where the communities about this are, or are nowadays

I personally have no need for "stable" assets, so I don't know more than that they exist.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#779

Post by georgeecollins »

olalonde wrote: post #314
georgeecollins wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be two concepts that are getting conflated. One concept is that BTC is a good investment. Historically that is undeniable. The other concept is that it is a good medium of exchange. I think that is not so true because 1) its neither cheap nor easy to buy a lot of things with it 2) a thing that goes up in value is not a good medium of exchange because people don't want to spend it, they want to hoard it…

You're also conflating two distinct concepts: "Bitcoin the currency" and "Bitcoin the payment network." The currency itself can be used independently of its base-layer network, which is intentionally slow and costly (functioning primarily as a settlement layer). This separation is enabled by off-chain or layer 2 systems, such as the Lightning Network or custodial platforms. These solutions retain Bitcoin's monetary b…

That's a good point. The payment layer can be different then the ones I have and encountered, and it could evolve. Going forward I will keep that in mind because I think in the back of my head I just assume BTC is a pain to use and that may not always be the case.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#780

Post by freejazz »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #629
karlgkk wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s being “used” as a speculative asset. That’s not a firm foundation to run a governmental monetary system on. Maybe there are other cryptocurrencies better suited to the task, but BTC isn’t

Everything is a speculative asset. Your marriage is a speculative asset that your wife doesn't cheat on you in future and actually loves you. S&P is a speculative asset that it will perform like it has been performing in last 30 years. USD is a speculative asset on US not going bankrupt. Your career is speculative asset that you don't get fired tomorrow and you can find another job if you do get fired. Bitcoin is a s…

>Your marriage is a speculative asset that your wife doesn't cheat on you in future and actually loves you.

Because you wouldn't do either?

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