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Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

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Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#771
post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is live a lot harder? Aside from latency (which isn't much of a problem unless you are competing with TV or some other distribution system), it seems easier than on-demand, since you send the same data to everyone and don't need to handle having a potentially huge library in all datacenters (you have to distribute the data, but that's just like having an extra few users per server). My guess is that the problem w…

I'm not an expert in this, but at least familiar with the trade. I'd imagine with on-demand services you already have the full content and therefore can use algorithms to compress frames and perform all kinds of neat tricks to. With live streaming I'd imagine a lot of these algorithms are useless as there isn't enough delay & time to properly use them, so they're required to stream every single pixel and maybe some J…

People are always impressed that Netflix can stand up to a new episode of Squid Game being released. And it’s not easy, we’ve seen HBO failed to handle Game of Thrones for example.

But in either case, you can put that stuff on your CDN days ahead of time. You can choose to preload it in the cache because you know a bunch of people are gonna want it. You also know that not every single individual is going to start at the exact same time.

For live, every single person wants every single bite at the same time and you can’t preload anything. Brutal.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#772

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

The only time I worked on a project that had a live television launch, it absolutely tipped over within like 2 minutes, and people on HN and Reddit were making fun of it. And I know how hard everyone worked, and how competent they were, so I sympathize with the people in these cases. While the internet was teeing off with easy jokes, engineers were swarming on a problem that was just not resolving, PMs were pacing up…

You cannot leave us hanging like that. What was the issue?

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#773
post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Games Awards claims to have 118 million livestreams [1], and went off without a hitch. I watched it for the game trailers, actually shocked that it's also superbowl viewership territory. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/game-awards-2023-break...

"The festivities were streamed live from the Peacock Theater in L.A. across more than 30 platforms including YouTube, Twitch, Facebook, TikTok Live, X (Twitter), Steam, WeChat, Bilibili, Huya, DouYu, Xiaohongshu and Instagram Live"

So no one service had to take the huge brunt. Much of it was divided I guess.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#774
post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only time I worked on a project that had a live television launch, it absolutely tipped over within like 2 minutes, and people on HN and Reddit were making fun of it. And I know how hard everyone worked, and how competent they were, so I sympathize with the people in these cases. While the internet was teeing off with easy jokes, engineers were swarming on a problem that was just not resolving, PMs were pacing up…

what was the ultimate cause/fix of issues in your case? a database thing?

Insufficient testing

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you know the answer to your questions is: of course they do. However, I’m in the same boat as you. The joke’s on us, I guess.

I guess my question is: why? "Cable boxes" are uniformly awful to use in my experience. The UI is clunky, they take up space and it's another remote and another tangle of wires to try to hide. What advantage do they offer in 2024?

> What advantage do they offer in 2024?

Live news and sports is huge for a ton of people.

You have access to all the shows from the major networks. You don’t need to subscribe to Peacock and Paramount and Hulu and the TBS app and Discovery+ and…

Better yet, they’re all combined in one interface as opposed to all trying to be the only thing that you use.

Also, especially if you grew up with it, there is absolutely a simplicity in linear TV. Everyone was used to a DVR. And yeah the interface sucks, but it sucked for everyone already anyway so they’re used to it. Don’t know what you wanna watch? Turn on a channel you watch and just see what’s on. No looking at 400 things to pick between.

I’ve seen people switch off and have serious trouble because it’s such a different way of watching TV from what they were used to. They end up using something like Hulu Live or YouTube TV to try and get the experience they’re used to back.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#776

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

You don’t belong to either group. What does this make you?

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#777
post #756

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

I've noticed this amongst the newer "careerist" sort of software developer who is stumbling into the field for money, as opposed to the obsessive computer geek of yesteryear, who practiced it as a hobby. This character archetype is a transplant, say, less than five years ago from another, often non-technical discipline, and was taught or learned from overly simplistic materials that decry systems programming, or netw…

What does this have to do with the topic being discussed?

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#778

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

Right? A common complaint by outsiders is that Netflix uses microservices. I'd love to hear exactly how a monolith application is guaranteed to perform better, with details . What is the magic difference that would have ensured the live stream would have been successful?

I am one of the ones who complain about their microservices architecture quite a lot.

This comes from both first-hand experience of talking to several of their directors when consulted upon on how to make certain systems of theirs better.

It's not just a matter of guarantees, it's a matter of complexity.

Like right now Google search is dying and there's nothing that they can do to fix it because they have given up control.

The same thing happened with Netflix where they wanted to push too hard to be a tech company and have their tech blogs filled with interesting things.

On the back end they went too deep on the microservices complexity. And on the front end for a long time they suffered with their whole RxJS problem.

So it's not an objective matter of what's better. It's more cultural problem at Netflix. Plus the fact that they want to be associated with "Faang" and yet their product is not really technology based.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#779
post #566

The way to deal with this is to constantly do live events, and actually build organizational muscle. Not these massive one off events in an area the tech team has no experience in.

They've been doing live events since 2023. But it's hard to be prepared for something that's never been done by anyone before — a superbowl scale event, entirely viewed over the internet. The superbowl gets to offload to cable and over the air. Interestingly, I didn't have any problems with my stream. So it sounds like the bandwidth problems might be localized, perhaps by data center or ISP.

I suspect a lot of it could be related to ISP bandwidth. I streamed it on my phone without issue. Another friend put their TV on their phone’s WiFi which also worked. Could be partly that phone hotspots lower video bandwidth by default.

I suspect it’s a bit of both Netflix issues and ISPs over subscribing bandwidth.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2012 live video was what, 480p?

No? In 2012 most already had fiber net here. Are you young or poor?

At least in the US "most" most definitely did not have fiber, at best maybe FTTC.
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