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Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

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Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#771

Post by frereubu »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #768
frereubu wrote: post #503

I'd encourage people to read this excellent piece in the London Review of Books by someone who was contracted to ghostwrite Assange's autobiography, and who initially felt very sympathetic towards the aims of Assange and Wikileaks: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v36/n05/andrew-o-hagan/ghost... I found it very insightful and nuanced when it comes to Assange and his motivations, presenting him as neither hero nor vill…

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This is exactly the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that I find really difficult. You could have stated this very differently instead of using sarcasm and we might have agreed on some points, but "is an odd way of saying" is so unnecessary. Did you read the article? You may find quite a bit to agree with. I personally have a pretty low opinion of Assange, and the article talks quite a bit about his narcissistic tendencies.

Your language also doesn't allow for the fact that although his actions might have helped Russian intelligence, it may well not be that he sat down at some point and explicitly said "right, how can I help the Russian government?" There's some fantastic literature about how well-meaning people can get dragged in some terrible directions, like Into That Darkness about Franz Stangl, the commandant at Treblinka. I'd encourage you to rethink the way you phrase things like this if you want to have substantive debate. If you just want to shout at people, fill your boots, but I'm not going to engage with it.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#772

Post by thesis »

kome wrote: post #671
tim333 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Afghans too "Well, they're informants," Assange replied. "So, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/18/julian... I'm ambivalent about his jailing. If you are going to get heroic people killed then you can't cry too much if you get jailed a bit.

Well, his words were unfortunate, but considering how the Americans left Afghanistan in total chaos a few years ago is even more unfortunate, to put it mildly. They threw most of their allies and collaborators under the bus. The American government has NO moral superiority. And they just need to shut up.

It's a weird vibe going on in this post. A lot of people are cheering the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I wonder how many know that the Taliban has all biometric/financial data that the US left behind enabling them to round up anyone who ever helped the US.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#773

Post by user_7832 »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #768
frereubu wrote: post #503

I'd encourage people to read this excellent piece in the London Review of Books by someone who was contracted to ghostwrite Assange's autobiography, and who initially felt very sympathetic towards the aims of Assange and Wikileaks: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v36/n05/andrew-o-hagan/ghost... I found it very insightful and nuanced when it comes to Assange and his motivations, presenting him as neither hero nor vill…

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I don't doubt he's been partial/sympathetic to the Russians. But, would you rather:

a. Piss of both of the most capable countries capable of spying and "mysteriously" bumping people off, or

b. Accept a deal with the devil to not die, and make up any excuse afterwards to justify your actions?

The US unfortunately isn't a very nice or fair country to piss off when they go about bullying (even Assange's treatments have been anything but "fair and above board"), so I'm not sure he ever even had a chance. (Assuming he wanted to live, of course.)

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#774

Post by Cody-99 »

jeswin wrote: post #402
Cody-99 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>who were collaborating in a decade of torture; that he had to be protected by Ecuador is an utter shame. Oh come on. No matter your opinion on the whole situation you can't say sitting in an Ecuadorian embassy is torture lol. Dude had his girlfriend, internet, and pets. Calling the self imposed stay torture is beyond absurd. BFFR

Yes torture. Among many others here's the UN Human Rights Commissioner's office on the Assange situation: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/11/un-expert-to... His mental health deteriorated a while back.

A self imposed exile inside an embassy and then 5 years in a British prison isn't torture. Trying to say that waters down what the word actually means.

>His mental health deteriorated a while back.

Okay and so what..? Does that somehow mean he shouldn't be held to account for his crimes? Plenty of prisons have bad mental health but that doesn't mean they should be let free. Had he not spent 14 years trying to avoid a trail he would have already been out years ago.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#775

Post by randomopining »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #763
Neil44 wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1901 days in prison, after all that time since 2012 holed up in a room in the Ecuadorian embassy first.

He was in isolation in a high security prison without having been convicted of any crimes since 22 September 2019. He was only released after 'admitting' that he was guilty... I think the UK and US should abstain from criticising any countries' courts and justice system after that...

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Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#776

Post by Lord-Jobo »

kome wrote: post #671
tim333 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Afghans too "Well, they're informants," Assange replied. "So, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/18/julian... I'm ambivalent about his jailing. If you are going to get heroic people killed then you can't cry too much if you get jailed a bit.

Well, his words were unfortunate, but considering how the Americans left Afghanistan in total chaos a few years ago is even more unfortunate, to put it mildly. They threw most of their allies and collaborators under the bus. The American government has NO moral superiority. And they just need to shut up.

"his words were unfortunate"

Many you really couldn't possibly sanitize the situation any more. He said an absolutely heinous thing out loud that reflects values I definitely don't want from someone running a "neutral" dissemination platform for secrets

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#777

Post by jfax »

drojas wrote: post #764

This is almost bringing me to tears today. I am happy he's finally going to be free but I am still in deep sadness because this is not the world we are supposed to living in. With all of our knowledge and technology we are still doing horrible things as a civilization and we have lost control of our leadership. This scares me a lot because it is a growing problem and every day it seems like humanity is losing more an…

This is beautifully articulated. I myself thought for a long time that if the day ever came that Assange walks free, I'd cry, but instead I feel a strange emptiness inside. The world isn't the one I'd imagined for this day.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#778

Post by 1oooqooq »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #768
frereubu wrote: post #503

I'd encourage people to read this excellent piece in the London Review of Books by someone who was contracted to ghostwrite Assange's autobiography, and who initially felt very sympathetic towards the aims of Assange and Wikileaks: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v36/n05/andrew-o-hagan/ghost... I found it very insightful and nuanced when it comes to Assange and his motivations, presenting him as neither hero nor vill…

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I'm sorry. did you read the links you shared?

the vox article says one contradicting thing after another. "shamir got all the cable leaks... when shamir asked for the cable leaks he was denied" uh? "never leaked russian documents ... assange first contacted him to leak Russian documents in russia" uh?

I won't even click the second one.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#780

Post by funkhouser »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #763
Neil44 wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1901 days in prison, after all that time since 2012 holed up in a room in the Ecuadorian embassy first.

He was in isolation in a high security prison without having been convicted of any crimes since 22 September 2019. He was only released after 'admitting' that he was guilty... I think the UK and US should abstain from criticising any countries' courts and justice system after that...

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