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Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#771

Post by sandoze »

asveikau wrote: post #766
sandoze wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind giving some high level clarification on how Apple would revoke entitlements on applications they’re not allowed to manage? Honestly curious about the infrastructure involved, is it really simple from a technological stand point? If the developer needs to use Apple resources to track and manage said entitlements, and the consumer expects Apple to police bad actors, then are we asking Apple to do this for free on…

I thought they already do this with notarized binaries on macOS. Conceptually it's no different from certificate revocation. The platform can phone home periodically to discover binaries for which notarization has been revoked.

You may be correct? Then the assumption would be developers need to pay the $99 fee to be part of the Apple dev program (pretty sure that’s the only way to get notarized). Next step in Apple’s playbook might be upping that fee for third party stores?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#772

Post by radley »

philistine wrote: post #765
xvector wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because MacBooks are just better. (Have owned both.) I have owned, and continue to own, all sorts of laptops and phones. I could rant about Apple all day long online, but in the end their product is simply superior.

Within the corporate monopolist called Apple, that is to say within the minds of all its collective employees, lies an old idea still warm and vibrant after decades of waning indifference. This idea is called Apple Computer, and it makes the best gosh-darn computers in the world: the Mac. It is such a powerful and self-evident idea that those computers are still above and beyond the best ones in the world, even with…

Heh, Apple Computer also made the iPhone. Everything since launch has been incremental change, not innovative.

Except Airpods. They're pretty sweet.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#773

Post by nwbort »

docmars wrote: post #750

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

Look up 'turnover rent'...

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#774

Post by asadotzler »

badwolf wrote: post #557
ianlevesque wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to infantilize your relatives because they cannot be trusted with their devices, then MDM them, or even have that be the default. But we do not need to surrender in the war on general purpose computing for it.

Folks on this site vastly overestimate how much people who actually buy and use these devices care about literally any of the stuff being talked about in this thread. Apple's schtick was "It just works." that's what people like and want. They don't want to have to go thru and make choices, dig thru settings, install other app stores, explain to meemaw that the nice man cold-calling her telling her to install this spe…

The nice man cold calling here won't be a f*cking idiot so he won't try to get her to jump through a bunch of complicated technical hoops that will surely fail because your poor meemaw is not tech savy enough to pull it off, to turn on a buried setting then visit a sketchy website then download and locate a package then agree to the warning at the package install and he isn't an idiot and knows that so he will just tell meemaw he's from the bank and he needs her credentials and she'll turn them over or hang up the phone. That you think the App Store is protecting her bank account is effing laughable. Malware is the very last thing a baddie on the phone with your poor meemaw is going to try and you either know that and are feigning stupidity or the alternative.

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/security.png needs a companion for people like you who infantalize seniors (if they're 80, they were using Windows 7 at work before they retired) and make up hacker scenarios that would never happen to seniors to defend an indefensible position that is "I stan Apple, or possibly all multi-trillion dollar mega-corporations with walled gardens, because hacking is for losers and I'm here on a hacking forum to let everyone know that."

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#775

Post by xvector »

isodev wrote: post #58
sneak wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complying with what you guess at the lawmakers' intentions was/were is a fool's errand. The law is the text, nothing more, nothing less. That's the point of the law. If the law falls short or has loopholes, it's a bad law and it's the legislature's job to fix it, not citizens' to suss it out. To assume the law means things that aren't written in the law is, quite basically, undemocratic.

The DMA is perfectly clear regarding its intention and context. Trying to split hairs to find wiggle-room in the text just so a gatekeeper can maintain the status-quo for a while longer is absolutely malicious. Furthermore, Apple’s behaviour is quite discouraging for us EU based developers who actually understand and aspire to the EU’s values and what we consider “normal” treatment of the people using our apps and se…

Obviously Apple doesn't hold the EU's values in high regard (few people in the Bay or even the US do), so of course they will try to fight it. It's perfectly rational and even expected behavior.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#776

Post by NoPicklez »

Terretta wrote: post #395
tombert wrote: post #384

It baffles the mind that having exactly one marketplace with rent-seeking level fees that neither users nor developers can opt out of doesn't violate some kind of antitrust law in the United States. Though it looks like the EU iPhone users are only in a marginally better position.

Tell your mind it's an appliance/console.* Still baffled? Because nobody seems baffled they can't run arbitrary software on their Amazon Echo Show, AppleTV, Xbox, Playstation, or Switch. * If your mind is struggling with this, you might need a bicycle for the mind to help. ;-) But seriously, Apple's brand and value prop since original Mac has been to toasterize compute and make it friendly approachable and non-fiddly…

I do often think people forget that when the iPhone app store was released it was a game changer. The whole idea of a single place to download all apps and games was great for most people. It meant that everything was there, in the one place and managed through that one app.

Now a decade has passed and we're asking for change. That's fine, but we can't forget that when the app store first came out there wasn't this hysteria around the need to sideload. The app store as a place for developers to publish their apps was huge, Apple did the publishing for you. How that we all have more choice, we're expecting Apple to change to provide more choice.

But we can't forget how beneficial it was.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#777

Post by osrec »

boplicity wrote: post #769
Nevermark wrote: post #764

Some specific benefits competitive apps stores could provide (within the general benefits of competition and innovation ): 1. The open source app store. The git hub app store. Open source apps easily prepped by developers and installed and updated by regular users. With source and build files. 2. The developer tools app store. Real developer tools on iOS devices. 3. Lower app store vigs. Lower app prices. Allow the l…

When the App store was new, the "free" apps were actually free. Now practically all of the "free" apps featured on the app store are not free at all. Half the time you can't even do anything without paying, but you only find this out after going through the hassle of downloading the app. A better app store would make pricing actually clear before you download the app , instead of the nightmare that pretend "free" app…

The app store and the Google play store are absolute garbage as far as I'm concerned.

Whatever protection they claim to offer is utterly bogus. If anything, they make it easier to leak personal information to random app makers, who, like you said, offer paid apps masquerading as free ones.

The amount of junk in the native app stores is just way too high for me to ever buy the argument that they're there to improve end user experience.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#778

Post by xvector »

pjerem wrote: post #700
Spivak wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part? I don't think the EU can rule that Apple can't charge publishers to be on iOS. This isn't malicious compliance, sans the size requirement it's exactly what they asked for. This keeps happening where people keep hitching "I don't want to pay Apple" to every wagon except a law that requires Apple to make access to iOS free. "Allow other payment processors": Okay you still pay 27% "Allow other stores": Okay…

> I don't think the EU can rule that Apple can't charge publishers to be on iOS. Oh I think the EU can rule whatever they want on their domestic market. Apple can try to find all the holes they want, the Commission is probably just taking notes of those holes to fix them in the DMA 1.1 I really think Apple (and Meta, fwiw) is making a huge mistake if they think they are in position to negociate anything. DMA is here…

This is somewhat a naive interpretation. Yes, the EU can enforce certain regulations, ban Apple, etc, but not without repercussions. We live in a global trade environment. It really comes down to whether the US administration would find the EU's actions unreasonable and whether there would be economic repercussions in turn.

A trade war is the last thing the EU wants, especially when they are completely and utterly dependent on the US for technology and protection, so it's very unlikely that the EU will get all extreme on Apple or other US tech companies.

It will push as hard it can but we will not see a protracted ban. The EU understands that it can only push so hard before it starts a trade war and harms itself out of spite.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#779

Post by AnthonyMouse »

vbezhenar wrote: post #753
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise of a walled garden is to keep unwanted things out, not to imprison you inside. Apple maintaining a store where they've vetted everything in it is fine, and if you like you can refuse to install anything from outside of it. That doesn't justify them prohibiting you from installing anything from outside of it. It should be up to you. If you wanted to, you could even configure your phone to not add any new s…

Those who like AppStore actually benefit from it being the only store. It means that almost all developers will bend under Apple rules and users will get their apps.

These users can do the same thing by refusing to use any other store even if they are allowed to, and if there are many of them they'll have leverage. But what they want is to force other users, who would willingly use other stores, to also use only the same one as them. They have no right to force others to do that any more than Apple does.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#780

Post by Nevermark »

vlabakje90 wrote: post #770
Nevermark wrote: post #764

Some specific benefits competitive apps stores could provide (within the general benefits of competition and innovation ): 1. The open source app store. The git hub app store. Open source apps easily prepped by developers and installed and updated by regular users. With source and build files. 2. The developer tools app store. Real developer tools on iOS devices. 3. Lower app store vigs. Lower app prices. Allow the l…

You don't have to fantasize, Android phones have had this possibility since the first version of the OS.

Well I do until I get an Android. But staying on the iPhone for other reasons. Mac + Vision combo just added another ring on the cuffs.

Sigh.

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