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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#771

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I worked with a guy who had two kids and no car. They rode their bikes everywhere, always. He insisted on it. I think his wife was miserable lol. But his kids seemed to like it!

Bringing home groceries on a bike for a family of 4 in the rain sounds awful. Though today grocery delivery isn't too bad, I suppose.

It's not bad at all if you have a decent trailer and raingear.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#772
post #508

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> Money is the big one (cars used to be a lot cheaper, both to buy and to maintain. That's just not true. Maybe for some outlier car models. For example my parents bought a base model Toyota Corolla in 1998 for 16K. A 2023 Corolla has MSRP $21,550. 16K in 1998 dollars is $29,366 today. So, the Corolla has actually become substantially cheaper over the years!

Cheaper, more reliable, more efficient, and they have way more features today. It’s shocking how much cars have improved in only a few decades.

> Cheaper, more reliable, more efficient, and they have way more features today.

Everything else yes, but more reliable remains to be seen. Cars are way more complex today with tons of more fragile electronics.

That 1998 Corolla I mention above is still going strong, just drove it today. It's a very simple car, so it might well outlast the 2023 model, perhaps.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#773
post #462
post #317

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Car-owners can still come there, just not in their car. Amsterdam has slowly tried to move cars out of the city center over the past couple decades. Residents can still get a parking permit, but parking space has been reduced to make more space for people, and visitors had better park their car at the edge of the city and take public transport into the city center. Or just come by train.

And famous mcv decided for the rest of us, right? No, they are tax-payers, they should be allowed to come with whatever vehicle they want. I agree that cheap public transportation should be offered, but also parking spaces for those who cannot come with public transportation.

I think you're taking me for someone else. I do not make these decisions.

I support them, though. I'm a tax payer too, and I live here, and I like the fact that this city is a lot nicer now.

And there are parking spaces. Lots of them. At the edge of the city. With fast public transport to the center, and if you combine the two, the parking is incredibly cheap. It's a win for everybody. I have no idea where your weird entitlement comes from.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#774
post #251

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> You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch Why not? Where are you trying to rent? There's bike rentals specifically aimed at tourists, and most people speak English reasonably well. > A train is great for Rotterdam-Hague-Amsterdam, not so good for visiting the Bosch museum in 's-Hertogenbosch. I just checked, and from Amsterdam, the train to that museum is actually slightly faster than a car. Though you do have a 15…

Yes, unfortunately were not exactly working in Amsterdam, and needed a tram to the local station and then a train to, perhaps Amsterdam. That said, I would love to know why 's-Hertogenbosch is spelled that way. I asked a few locals, and none knew.

It's one of those cities that has two names: Den Bosch and 's Hertogenbosch.

The first simply means "the forest", in slightly archaic spelling. The second is short for "des hertogenbosch", which is archaic for "the duke's forest". "Des" is archaic genitive that's barely used any more in Dutch except in a few phrases and place names.

's ochtends => des ochtends => of the morning

's avonds => des avonds => of the evening

's Hertogenbosch => the duke's forest

's Gravenhave => des graven hage => the count's hedge (also known as Den Haag / The Hague)

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#775
post #363

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So only one person instead of two has to suffer through a dreadful commute, you need only one car instead of two, one parent works close to where the kids go to school, etc. If you live in the middle, everything is far away for everybody. That doesn't mean it's not viable to live in the middle, but I think these are some pretty good arguments why it's often preferable to live close to at least one partner's workplace…

Would you volunteer to have twice the dreadful commute for the benefit of your partner, or do you see yourself being the beneficiary of this configuration?

My wife and I seem to disagree who is the beneficiary of this configuration. She seems to like driving. And she likes that I live close to home.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#776

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> maintenance is expensive This is largely just nonsense for a lot of modern cars. I’m at 80k in 4 years and have only done oil changes and tyres. My mother only had her first “big” repair on her car at 140k after 10 years. Cars are more reliable than they’ve ever been.

> My mother only had her first “big” repair on her car at 140k after 10 years. A full set of tires generally costs more than the average american has in their emergency fund > Cars are more reliable than they’ve ever been Larger and more expensive too, gas prices are also higher than they have been historically.

Cars are both bigger and more efficient. A modern Corolla is physically bigger and heavier than a 30 year old one, but gets better fuel mileage.

The statistics on emergency funds are sketchy at best, at least here in Canada. I recommend you look at who is funding them and their methodology.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#777
post #147

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Sounds like Toronto needs to invest in better public transit. 14 minutes average waiting time? How often do they come? Every 30 minutes? In a large city, that should be 10.

10 minutes is a pretty poor goal for a major city. The Paris metro has headways of 2-3 minutes. The Moscow metro has headways as short as 1-2 minutes. The busiest metro in the world, in Shanghai, has 2.8 billion rides per year with headways of between 1-3 minutes.

Amsterdam is not that busy. Here it's usually 6-10 minutes, depending on the time and the line. It makes sense that larger cities have to move more people and therefore need a lot more trains. Amsterdam isn't that big. Toronto is, though. And yet public transport is terrible.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#778

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Transit agencies should come up with a reciprocity plan. You don't live here, but you have have a monthly pass for the city you live in so I'll let you ride my system for a week - or if system prices are too different pro-rate your time so you get a great discount. Note that a large part of the above is I think transit agencies should try to get as many people as possible on unlimited ride family passes. Anyone with…

Large cities don’t usually have one unlimited monthly plan, you pay for your specific route or zone(s).

I'm fine with zones, though I think cites get them wrong. The lowest cost zone should include your house, no matter where you live, with additional zones for getting farther away. When traveling your hotel should be how your zone is defined (or where ever you stay).

But you should always strive to have everyone on an unlimited rides pass for their home zone. Anything else encourages getting a car for trips that could go either way and that in turn justifies a car for everything.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#779
post #413
post #315

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It's a risk that is so low that if I were to invest time in reducing the top risks in my life, it'd be far outside the top 10. Put another way: The odds of me finding myself somewhere where I can't easily find someone to drive me somewhere is near zero. Note that this is how I evaluate my risk. I absolutely accept this will be an issue for people who live in places where getting transport might be a problem. If that'…

Public transit strikes and system breakdowns happen occasionally, nothing to do with the end of civilization. Not being able to drive really limits your options, especially if you want to travel to remote locations for business or leisure. Knowing how it drive is just a basic life skill for any adult. It's something everyone should know how to do like being able to cook a meal or rewire an electrical outlet or shoot…

Public transit strikes doesn't take out the dozens of private hire car firms, minicab companies and app driven providers serving where I live.

So, yeah, it'd take pretty much the end of civilisation for it to be an issue. If I had no money, or lived somewhere rural, the considerations would be different.

And not being able to drive has never been a factor for me in deciding where I want to go.

If I had any desire to regularly go to anywhere so remote that I couldn't justify hiring someone to drive me there, I'd learn to drive, but in 47 years that has happened exactly zero times.

I live in a city in a functioning society, not in a rural location or third world country, and my interests don't include anything that will see me end up in the middle of nowhere. That this might not be true for you does not mean it isn't true for me.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#780
post #749

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> drive or cook a meal or rewire an electrical outlet or shoot a gun or splint a broken limb None of those except cooking are in any way "basic life skills". Least of all shooting a gun.

It's sad if you really believe that. Too many people in the tech industry have led such sheltered lives that they lack perspective on what happens in the real world. At a bare minimum every adult should know how to unload and render safe a firearm.

I wouldn't want to live in the kind of uncivilized, unsafe society where people are so scared that they consider that a necessary skill. Thankfully I don't.
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